Well, Tim, we have indeed quenched the Spirit, but yes, He is not gone. He is gone from some of our churches, but not from all.
>But to give you a hint, I'm with J. Gresham Machen on this.
Thanks for the hint, Tim. Found the article, and of course, it's wise. Looking forward to reading your thoughts on it.
>>we have quenched the Holy Spirit and he is gone.
I believe not.
>>A few questions (asked for the sake of understanding, not rhetorically):
Dear Tim (Dukeman),
A couple brief responses:
You ask, "What's the difference between the varieties of FV that you mentioned?"
F-V has always caused David and me serious concern and, from the beginning of F-V, our concern has been most intense at the point of its sacramentalist emphasis and drift. And by "sacramentalist," I do not mean the recovery of historic Reformed sacramentology which both David and I fully embrace, but the Lutheran sacramentology that many F-V men present claiming it's Reformed. Although most F-V men did and would still deny this danger, we believe our fears have been born out by both F-V's writings and practice in the intervening years.
Annd now, for simplicity's sake, let me say that F-V is breaking down into two strains, one of which causes us less and the other much greater concern. Those strains are Puritan F-V (how's that for any oxymoron?) and Lutheran F-V.
You ask, "When Luther said of Zwingli "we are not of the same spirit," was that overkill?"
I prefer not to address this under this post, but to turn to it directly in a post partly written which will follow. But to give you a hint, I'm with J. Gresham Machen on this.
You ask, "3. What's so bad about the LCMS Lutherans?"
Again, the work I'm trying to do is reclaim the hearts of neo-Lutherans claiming to be confessionally Reformed for historic Reformed confessionalism.
That failing, we ask for our neo-Lutheran brothers to leave the Reformed church and, paraphrasing Romeo, wear their new uniform and fly their new flag thusly:
I take thee at thy word:
Call me but Lutheran, and I'll be truly baptized;
Henceforth I never will be Reformed.
This is the reform the church always reforming needs today.
>>Just my view from the cheap seats...
Dear Tim (Remmy),
Well now, the axeman cometh! Nice to hear from you.
Love to you and Cheryl,
Alas I am ill equipped nor am I learned enough to comment authoritatively on the schism existing in the the blog.
Frankly the brouhaha is lost on me. Perhaps I am naive in matters on church politic. However I have long held a deep suspicion that when the great multitude gathers together for the Rock Show to end all Rock Shows in Glory Land , one of the first things Jesus is going to say in to the microphone shortly after taking the stage is " First of all , you guys complicated "All who believe in me shall be saved" deal waaaayyy too much ".
Just my view from the cheap seats...
Love & Cookies
Tim D.: Regarding LCMS Lutherans...
I love those guys. I live in Fort Wayne, Indiana, the location of a major LCMS seminary and many faithful conservative Lutherans. My family and I are good friends with dozens of them and fellowship with them frequently. The LCMS Lutherans here are typically large homeschooling families with a keen understanding of our current political problems and an increasing burden to reach their neighborhoods and the world for Christ.
That said, they would never allow one of my Reformed pastors in their pulpit. And my Reformed church would never welcome someone with their confused "mysterious" views on the sacraments into ours.
Again, not a rhetorical question: I wonder what Luther would make of the neo-Lutheran tendencies you've pointed out, granted that he would certainly take up the cudgels against post-modernism.
A few questions (asked for the sake of understanding, not rhetorically):
1. What's the difference between the varieties of FV that you mentioned?
2. When Luther said of Zwingli "we are not of the same spirit," was that overkill? Or do you agree with him?
3. What's so bad about the LCMS Lutherans?
That this is happening in "a generation such as ours" is further proof we have quenched the Holy Spirit and he is gone.
So if he hadn't accepted Christ, he'd still have both his arms?
"At UW-Madison, our shared governance infrastructure is comprised of four constituencies: faculty, students, and staff. "
4 = 3, I see there is diversity and inclusiveness in the Math department. It must fall under the climate initiative.
Hmmm ... that document needed more sifting and winnowing.
Caleb, sometime yet this summer, I plan to teach a Sunday school session in Brian Bailey's "City Gates" class on the doctrine of the lesser magistrates. I think that will give you some of what you are looking for.
I agree Daniel. It's been sad to me to see Pence not take a stand in that way here in Indiana.
What are things that I as a citizen can do to keep the civil magistrate accountable? I remember Elder Bailey saying in Sunday School that the primary way is through calling for impeachment. I don't even know how to go about that process though.
The process to remove a federal district judge is that the US House of Representatives must impeach him and then he must be found guilty in the ensuing trial by the US Senate, and the present climate of the US Senate makes it vanishingly unlikely that such a judge as Young would be found guilty of lawlessness, which makes it seem futile to work toward his impeachment at the moment.
But the present climate in the Senate is not the real problem---even if the Senate were full of Republicans, removal of this man from office would be unlikely---the real problem is that there is much lawlessness among even professed conservatives in Congress (and among us who elected them). Since no one is practicing righteousness, there is no high moral ground to stand on at times like this. Everyone knows the conservatives exhibit disregard for the Constitution too when it's convenient for them.
We need statesmen who are willing to lay down their political lives for the sake of what's right, and constituents who are willing to stand behind them.
As an example of the latter, when a state doesn't follow along with a wicked policy of the federal government, the federal government may retaliate by taking away funding. State legislators and governors who resist this tyranny can have their hands strengthened by constituents who demand that they stand firm, or they can have their hands weakened by constituents who love the federal dole. Perry lost federal funding for Medicaid in Texas for not going along with the feds, and he could do it because he has the support of his people.
We need to repent of our own lawlessness and find ways to strengthen the hands of our leaders.
Brother, thank you for smacking my cowardice upside the head. Faithful are the wounds of a friend.
Excellent post, brother. Most people simply don't like confrontation of any kind, and will compromise their principles to avoid it. What irks me the most is when they construct their own principles for the very purpose of avoiding it, vis, R2K, resulting in pietistic cowardice.
Thank you, Pastor Bayly.
>>A lot of pedophiles hunt in churches...
Absolutely. And it's a fitting judgment on believers who have refused to hold civil magistrates accountable for their rebellion against the Constitution and the Moral Law of God.
You really should read the blogs that I posted. Pedophiles groom parents so if the kids talk, they won't be believed. A lot of pedophiles hunt in churches
>>Who protects the child when the father is the molestor? By what authority do they do it?
The elders of a church and/or the civil magistrate, and by God's authority delegated to them for this very thing:
Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. 3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; 4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil. 5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience’ sake. 6 For because of this you also pay taxes, for rulers are servants of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7 Render to all what is due them: tax to whom tax is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honor to whom honor. (Romans 13:1-7)
In other words, this post was not denying the civil magistrate his proper sphere, but rather making the point that the civil magistrate is denying and displacing fathers from their proper sphere.
There are two blogs you and your readership should be aware of jimmyhinton.org and findingahealingplace.com . Hinton is the son of a pastor who was a pedophile since the father was 14. The second blog is the molestor's ex wife. They explain how child molestors work and how they can fool people for so long. When they found out, they were the ones who had to go to the cops.
Who protects the child when the father is the molestor? By what authority do they do it?
I had another brilliant thought today about Hobby Lobby not being a person. The left says Hobby Lobby is not a person, so this implies that if it were a person, they would have much better standing to have religious beliefs that should be respected. Doesn't this imply that real persons should have a right to not pay for abortifacient coverage? You would think so. But I think the real truth here is that even if Hobby Lobby was a person, as all people are, the left would still force them to pay for the coverage, as they already force individuals to do so. I think the issue of Hobby Lobby personhood is called a straw man argument.