Depressingly old and normal news...

Dear Sue,

Women officers are illegal in the PCA. Redeemer has long had them and has never been disciplined for doing so. Concerning elders, men and women attend elders meetings, but only men are allowed to vote.

Concerning what Redeemer calls "deeks" (male or female deacons), both men and women serve as officers of the diaconate and the entire diaconate has long had a woman as its "director."

Again, even this is in direct violation of the Bible and the Book of Church Order, but no one in the PCA has ever disciplined their practice. It's ho-hum to most everyone.

Love,

Dear Lynn,

Look under Deacons/Deaconesses on the left margin of this page for answers to your questions.

Sincerely in Christ,

David

Redeemer has a choice. Be faithful to scripture or be faithful to the guidelines of the PCA. Perhaps they should just withdraw from the PCA.

1) The Session of a PCA church is made of the pastor and associate pastors (if any) and elected ruling elders (male).

2) Ruling Elders are nominated by members of the church. They are examined by the session. The session votes on those who they believe are qualified using the Scriptural guidelines of T Timothy 3 and Titus 1. Then the members of the church vote on the slate and those who are elected are either ordained and or installed as RE.

3) Not in the way the Anglican church does though all nominees for ruling elder and deacon are to receive training. In the PCA the office of ruling elder and deacon is perpetual and they are ordained.

David Bayly claims that Keller "minimizes" the authority of deacons by saying they perform practical deeds of mercy. Yet the PCA BCO defines deacons this way: "The office is one of sympathy and service, after the example of the Lord Jesus; it expresses also the communion of saints, especially in their helping one another in time of need." So what is Keller minimizing? Seems like he paraphrases the BCO to me.

Also, Tim Bayly's comment that women and assistant pastors have the same authority is highly misleading. Both serve as advisors when the Session discuss various issues. Neither has a vote, and therefore neither has true "authority." That's like saying asking one's wife and assistant pastor for advice on the same matter gives them equal authority.

Finally, in small groups leaders do not discipline their members. Disciplinary action comes from the pastoral staff and Session only. So women do not discipline men in small groups. Mr. Bayly should give a specific example or official policy where this is true, or otherwise retract his statement.

>>So what is Keller minimizing?

The authority of deacons. He always minimizes their authority, and it's necessary since he's mainstreaming men and women together as what he calls "deeks." As in, "we have men and woman officers, but not to worry; our deeks don't exercise any authority. It's just an office of service, you see."

>>Both serve as advisors when the Session discuss various issues. Neither has a vote, and therefore neither has true "authority."

Women and pastors together in the elders meetings, with the same privileges and authority. Scandalous! Precisely how do you explain this to John Calvin or the Apostle Paul?

"Well, Paul, our women don't exactly rule with our elders. They speak but don't vote, you see. Our pharisaical rules protect us. Voice but no vote, you see. Voice but no vote. Our pastors and women in the elders meetings have the same authority, which is to say no "real" authority. Voice but no vote, don't you see? Oh, yes; Tim Keller is the pastor who does get to vote. But we're careful not to let any of his many assistant pastors vote because they're... Ooops. Hey Tim! Why don't we let the assistant pastors vote? I forget. Can you please remind me? I know we don't let the women vote so we can say they have no "real" authority. But doesn't every pastor have authority? Or is it just you--the senior pastor--who has authority? Or maybe it's that we want the men to look just like the women?"

>>small groups leaders do not discipline their members.

It's impossible to be a father, teacher, pastor, deacon, or small group leader without exercising authority, including exhortation, rebuke, admonishment, and other forms of discipline.

You see, the whole show there at Redeemer depends upon scrupulous definitions of "authority," "discipline," "teaching," "leadership," "male," "female," and so on. Strip the words away, though, and show any church father prior to the twenty-first century the practice being hidden behind those words; show him that Redeemer has implemented female deacons they call "deeks" who are not explicitly stated to be under the authority of their male deacons; and listen as those fathers publicly rebuke Redeemer's rebellion against God's Order of Creation.

The director of the diaconate is a woman. Kathy Keller teaches men as a ministry of the church...

In other words, women teaching and exercising authority over men at Redeemer is so constant it's become banal.

Love,

>>Keller and the PCA should part ways if they really hold different views.

No, the PCA should not part ways with Tim Keller. Rather, the PCA should see to his submitting to the BCO and Scripture. And don't look to hide your rebellion by labeling it a question of Biblical interpretation--something as clear and foundational as the Order of Creation, no less.

Scripture is as plain as day on this and no father of the church across two millenia would agree with you.

But of course, Tim Keller would. And that's why the PCA should not let Tim leave, but rather bring him back to Scripture in his doctrine and practice. This is the benefit of vows to submit to one's fellow officers.

Love,

Tim made a comment that it was wrong for women to distribute the Sacrament in Sunday worship as they do at Dr. Tim Keller's church. Why is this considered to be having authority over men?

In my Anglican church, priests distribute the body of Christ ("bread" -- usually wafers) and laymen and women distribute the blood of Christ (wine in a chalice). I was asked to serve as a chalice bearer once a month at one of our services. It has never occurred to me that this ministry put me in authority over the men receiving the Holy Eucharist that day. It has always seemed like an act of service, not authority, to bring the chalice to the people humbly kneeling at the altar ready to receive Christ's blood (in the way that Anglicans view this Sacrament) and to serve Christ by serving God's people this way.

Just my .02,

Sue McK.

Ben,

Actually, it's totally pastoral... But perhaps you've never been in a church where pastors actually warn flesh and blood men.

On the other hand, perhaps you misstated your comment. As it's written you accuse the PCA of holding an unbiblical position on the roles of men and women.

I'm sure Tim would gladly apologize for his call to repentance if you would assure him you expressed yourself infelicitously. But absent such an admission on your part you are as he said and the only pastoral call you need to hear is to repentance. Which of the two is it?

Sincerely,

David