The distinction is wanted and unwanted...

A brother writes about the sadness of our President and nation mourning the terrible slaughter of little children in Connecticut yesterday whose lives their parents wanted and granted while refusing to mourn the lives of little children across our country whose lives their parents didn't want and didn't grant.

Another brother thinks the first brother's point untimely, and so I take it down.

Comments

Would love to see the argument as to why it is untimely. I have folks fussing at me along the same lines, and it makes no sense to me. When a certain city was mourning their own tragedy, a tower that collapsed and killed many, as they were looking for answers from God, one Rabbi said, "Unless you repent you will all likewise perish." Not, by the way, that this brother is trying to get you to put it back up.

Well, I see both sides of the issue.  A friend just sent me an article by a fellow named Gary Willis called "our Moloch," where the gun, and gun culture, is described as our Moloch--I replied to him that while the man made a good point or two, career, financial security, freedom, and self were our real Molochs, and abortion clinics the temples where we sacrificed to them.  But at the same time, here we have twenty families who have just had their babies murdered, and I think we would all agree with Barack Obama and whoever else, that this is a tragedy and we ought to mourn for them, regardless of how we feel about other things. 

As in all such tragedies, it's the closeness to home and the senselessness that gets us- and we're all just as guilty as the next person when it comes to abortion and the slaughter of innocents.  If we really, deep down, in our heart of hearts and not just our heads, believed that abortion was murder, not a single one of us would be able to sleep at night after we got done throwing out our rhetoric about a holocaust every decade.  We risk our reputation as progressive, tolerant folks by posting the truth about abortion in blogs and forums.  The bolder among us--and to my shame, I have not been one--risk personal freedom and name in a bigger way by standing outside abortion clinics.  But here we've got 6 people--all women--who have actually given up their flesh and blood LIVES to save children--other peoples--from being killed, and perhaps it's time to think about that for a little bit. 

The brother's point is a correct one, and certainly not one we will hear in the national discourse, so perhaps for that reason alone it is worth making.  I've been reading through the book of Jeremiah lately, and it's making me quite sympathetic to the persistent preacher who does not scratch itching ears, either in his choice of words or, just as importantly, his choice of when to say them.  But at the end of the day here, we have twenty more dead little ones than we would have if all the abortion clinics in America were going full steam on Friday, and we can mourn that, plain and simple.

I apologize for the lack of cogency here--as a teacher myself, it's hard to be objective.  I hope this Lord's day is marked by God's presence in your worship and your hearts and minds.

To bring together the wretched dissonance between outrage and grief at killing 6 and 7 year olds and the monumental moral preening of those who either defend or look away from the slaughter of tens of millions of children even more vulnerable than those who were shot ... yes, yes, yes, it is timely and ~imperative~ for Christians to point to the moral dissonance between these two things.

In the church calendar, the Feast of the Holy Innocents is December 27 -- two days after Christmas.  It is always observed in our parish on the Sunday following Christmas, this year on December 30.  It is one occasion when I invariably address the slaughter of innocents that has made our nation awash with the blood of children.

And you better believe I am going to conjoin this grisly slaughter by knives and caustic chemicals with the slaughter by bullets this past week. To heave ashes in the air over the latter and to happily ignore or to defend the former ... Christians must not fail to point to such moral perversity. And to do so in no way detracts from the outrage of killing children by bullets.  It simply sets their wretched deaths in the correct context -- a very longstanding policy to consign millions of children to deaths every bit as wretched as those in Connecticut this past week.

I would agree completely. The truth is neither convenient nor "timely" for most of us. I had sent many friends a link to the post, only to later be disappointed that it had been removed.

I'll respectfully be your loyal opposition here. I believe working to protect the pre-born, the profoundly disabled, and the frail elderly is what Jesus asks of us. Unfortunately, there will be ample time to return to this work after we grieve with the families, friends, and teachers who lost children and the families who lost mothers (teachers) who tried to shield children from harm. 

My denomination (Anglican Church in North America - ACNA) is largely pro-life. Our archbishop, Robert Duncan, is a signer of the Manhattan Declaration, as I think are some diocesan bishops. Seminary professors, parish priests and deacons, as well as many members are also signers. One of its "planks" has a strong pro-life message. Archbishop Duncan sent a prayer for the families of the victims to everyone on his e-mail list. Our rector talked yesterday about the children who died being enveloped into  Jesus's arms when they reached heaven. He dropped his usual practice of preaching from 1+ of the Scripture lessons assigned for the day. Instead, his sermon was primarily evangelistic, telling us that to prevent tragedies like this, we must boldly share our faith in Christ with others. He said that until we win the world for Christ, one heart at a time, we have no way to stop incidences like this in the future.

I believe these were appropriate reactions to the shootings in Newton, Connecticut.

I read the stories of the Lanza family, and nowhere is there a mention of the Dad who divorced his wive "amicably" in 2009.

Everybody is amicable except Adam. And nobody asked him. The tragedies are simply the outworking of much earlier problems. Have you never wondered why (a) there are more divorces today and (b) there is more autism/Aspergers today and (c) why there are an outbreak of Adams? Even supposing (a) and (b) are non-causal, which would be an interesting study in itself, Prob (c) = Prob (a) * Prob(b). And you notice it is a quadratic function--it is getting ready to explode.

Sue,

How is it that we grieve with the families? I am assuredly sad for them. I am certainly praying for them. I am encouraging those who are actually near to minister to the actual families in Newtown. What troubles me is the faux American catharsis that comes with these events, which I believe, in turn, callous our hearts still more against the murder of the unborn. We wring our hands not because we actually think a great and strange evil has happened, but because it makes us feel good about ourselves. Were it the former we would do it every day over murdered babies. In addition, though of course no one wants to turn different sufferings into a contest or a mathematical formula, why would we "set aside" the murder of 3000 on Friday to turn our attention to the murder of 30, knowing we can come back to the 3000? Can we not remember the 3000 and promise to get back to the 30 when the most vulnerable are protected? My sense is that those who are sensitive about bringing up the abortion holocaust at this time are sensitive because they are tender hearted, as we all should be, towards the weeping parents that they see. But we don't see the weeping babies, which is why we need constantly to be reminded, especially in times like this. That's my two cents of loyal opposition to the loyal opposition. God bless sister

Just so everyone knows, my comments on my blog about untimely politicization were not responding to the post here. This space is dedicated to a faithful advocacy for the unborn all the time, as the readers here know.

Responding to the OP, Ben Stein connected the CT tragedy to abortion in the American Spectator today, and so did Rush Limbaugh on radio, so this sort of thing is common at this point.

I mourn against the evil, but this tragedy doesn't provoke a catharsis in me, except to finally want to pack heat.  I am not alone: Applications for gun permits overwhelmed the system in Colorado over the weekend.

Denver,

If you and anyone else in your home state (Colorado, I assume) acquires guns legally, go for it. It's a free country, after all. But it saddens me that you feel you must resort to firearms for protection. As for me, I am very thankful that my husband has shown absolutely no interest in obtaining a gun. He keeps the largest possible size aluminum softball bat under his side of the bed and would use it to defend me, himself, our neighbors, or our property. 

And I would never own or carry a concealed weapon -- ever -- even though I know a few Christian women living on their own who do. My husband has a disease that means he will likely die within the next 6-8 years, which will make me a "young" widow. Even living alone or with a profoundly disabled husband, getting a firearm won't happen. With his disease, it could even be dangerous. Taking martial arts classes, though, might be a good idea. 

I cannot, we may not, stop crying out for the littlest ones even for a day, when 3500 more little ones were killed in America unmourned the same day as the 20.

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/should-pro-lifers-compare-abortion-to-t...

>>But it saddens me that you feel you must resort to firearms for protection.

Dear Sue,

It's not for their own protection. We should assume they're honorable men who want to be able to kill the man slaughtering women and children before the monster runs the total to five, ten, fifteen, twenty, or twenty-six.

The school was a soft target where the monster had no fear of being shot. One teacher carrying might have saved twenty-four of those lives. Men are made by God to take responsibility for women and children.

Love,

Some random thoughts...

As protection, guns are the great equalizer, not dependent on the size of the user, and only somewhat dependent on his skill. 

If being gun-free in your own home is a source of pride, try posting a sign to that effect in front of your house and see how that turns out.

After there has been a crime against a woman, inevitably the local news will show how women are flocking to karate classes. 

Owning a gun doesn't necessarily mean conceal-carry.  It could mean it is up in your closet, waiting for time of need.

Much evil has been perpetrated against a citizenry that was officially disarmed by government.

What is interesting is why the homicide rate in the USA is three times as high as that for comparable countries in the developed world, and that value used to be four times as high. Any ideas?

The following graphic (page down to the variation in gun homicide rates by state) is also very informative:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-20759139

While I'm here, some comments from a Christian on the "front line" (Clive Calver, who's British).

http://www.charismamag.com/life/culture/16188-could-connecticut-school-s...

>What is interesting is why the homicide rate in the USA is three times as high as that for comparable countries in the developed world, and that value used to be four times as high. Any ideas?

I saw a study back in the 90s that looked at Americans of European descent and found the homicide rate fairly close to that of the UK.

OK, Tim. You added an aspect to this situation that I hadn't considered. But what about shooting to maim rather than to kill? Maybe that's more difficult, but still seems like it's better to try first instead of murder. Or maybe let the public, with proper training, be allowed to use stun guns, rubber bullets, or tazers? (I know next to nothing about these "techniques" to stop a killer, so I may be blowing smoke.)

I'd still rather have my husband out there wielding his aluminum softball bat trying to beat the bejeebers out of the killer rather than shooting the killer first, or shooting to maim the killer. And I think I'd still feel the same way if a teacher were my best friend, or one of the children were my own child or grandchild. 

In Christ,

Sue

Dear Denver,

>If being gun-free in your own home is a source of pride, try posting a sign to that >effect in front of your house and see how that turns out.

I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not stupid. We'll just keep that under the radar.

>Much evil has been perpetrated against a citizenry that was officially disarmed by >government.

I'm assuming you were just making a general observation, but I'm not against the right to bear arms in a reasonable sense. In my opinion, no one needs an arsenal, or assault weapons or semiautomatics to hunt, protect his or her home, family, or his or herself, or fend off a mass shooter. To me, this is far from the government disarming us.

<Owning a gun doesn't necessarily mean conceal-carry.  It could mean it is up in <your closet, waiting for time of need.

True, but by the time it's taken out from its lockbox and loaded with bullets, it might be too late for it to be useful. And that doesn't count spending time at a shooting range periodically so I could fire the darn thing accurately if necessary. That would also be the case for my husband.

With no offense meant to any Native Americans reading this: If I were a Native American my name might be Sue No Pack Heat.

but still seems like it's better to try first instead of murder

Killing somebody to defend your family isn't murder.  Best to use words without muddying their meaning.

In my opinion, no one needs an arsenal, or assault weapons or semiautomatics to hunt, protect his or her home, family, or his or herself, or fend off a mass shooter.

Most weapons owned by Americans are semi-automatics (about 60% last I saw).  A semi-automatic weapon is a magazine fed weapon that fires a bullet when you pull the trigger.  The primary difference between a semi-automatic pistol and a revolver is higher magazine capacity and more likely to jam.  A revolver is more reliable, lower capacity.  Of course a killer could do a lot more damage in a classroom with a shotgun than with a semi-automatic rifle.  The problem is we have people who know next to nothing about firearms talking about firearms.  And what is an "arsenal"?  I have a 1916 single shot .22 and a 44 magnum revolver.  Is that an arsenal.  Too much suburban living.

If you don't want your husband to effectively defend your family that is your affair.  Don't stop others from trying to effectively defend their families.

My husband said it's better to go with a foam bat. An aluminum bat could cause death. :)

@David Gray - the statistic you saw probably used ethnicity as a surrogate for income; there seems to be a strong relationship between poverty and homicide, both as perpetrator and certainly as victim. That is clear from the UK, in areas where ethnicity is certainly not an issue. That said, the UK has plenty of people who are not of "European ancestry", and in London, whites are now only just a majority - that place is another New York.

I'd say a better bet was culture than income.  And these numbers are around 20 years old, the UK had more indigenous people back then.

Freida,

Love it!

Sue

David, I looked up the definition of murder in a dictionary and realize you are right. So I'll revise my previous statement to say, "but it still seems better to try first than to commit homicide [the killing of one human being by another, according to dictionary.com].

No, I don't consider your two weapons to be an arsenal, and I'd never advocate taking away your right to keep them. But what about people with 6, 10, or even more firearms that aren't used to hunt or for a non-violent sport like skeet shooting, or are part of a gun collection that contain no bullets are never intended to be fired again.* Why would anyone need any more than 2-3 three firearms not used for hunting or sport to defend themselves, their family or their property?

I don't want the Bureau of ATF bursting into anyone's homes for firearm raids. But we could certainly draw a line and issue only 2 gun permits per adult and a limit within households for firearms without hunting or sporting uses. So a household might have a of limit 3 or 4 gun permits for non-hunting, non-sporting firearms.

*I think guns as collector's items can be a great hobby. My late father had a great firearms collection, but never intended to fire any of the weapons. It eventually passed on to my brother. 

Different weapons have different strengths.  If I were a serious hunter I think I'd find 2-3 weapons too restrictive.  And it wouldn't really serve any purpose as I don't think any mass murderer has used more than three weapons, often less.

Mrs. McKeown, would I be wrong in thinking that you would have a problem with the government limiting the amount of your free speech? Your posts on this matter are actually frightening to me. I understand you have reasons specific to your situation that inform you and your husband to be defenseless, that's fine and I have no problem with it, firearms are "not for everybody". But to even think of some kind of limit on that right is a staggering statement. Where does it end? How about cars? Sure, it's not a "right" to drive but, go with me; how much horsepower does your vehicle have? Does it REALLY need any more than 150? Come on, why do you need more than that? I know cars are not a good example. After all, cars are far more deadly than firearms so it's not really fair to compare the two.

It dawned on me today reading and hearing everything stirred up by the Sandy Hook shootings that there seems to be a twisted relationship between anti gun people and abortion. This is a general statement; in my personal experience people who support abortion are anti gun also. The sick irony is they want to allow the murder of babies and not allow the defense of them when they are born. The two fit together so well but I had never realized the connection. 

Dear Mr. Hatkow,

If you'd ask anyone who knows me well, they'd tell you that I'm very much an advocate of free speech. I was one of those folks that thought that the KKK should be allowed to march in Skokie, IL (home of many Jewish people). I support freedom of religion, even of non-Christian religions that are abhorrent to me. But if you are saying that because people should be able to keep as many weapons in their home to open a gun shop = free speech, then I respectfully disagree. 

Everyone has limits to free speech, roughly similar to those of some limitations on owning firearms. (If my analogies are poor, please forgive me. I took an exam this evening and my mind hasn't wound down yet :-)). We abide by zoning limitations. We don't have the right to drive 100 mph on a freeway or 45 mph through a school zone, but we can own and drive cars with a valid driver's license and auto insurance. Freedom of expression might mean that nudists can buy land and build a nudist colony sheltered from the street/highway and its neighbors. Obviously, it doesn't mean they can have a picnic buck nekkid in City Park. 

All I'm saying here is that the right to bear arms shouldn't be unlimited, not that the right to bear arms should be eliminated. Maybe I shouldn't have put actual numbers on the # of non-hunting, non-sporting firearms/household. But do you really want to live next door to someone who keeps a dozen or more semiautomatic weapons in the basement? 

And I'm not pro-choice. Except for cases of rape, incest, saving the life of the mother, and fetal (Latin for "little one", I think) abnormalities incompatible with life, I am against abortion. In the eyes of many, if not most, readers/posters of this blog I'm probably not considered truly pro-life. But I'm opposed to at least 97% of the abortions in the U.S. In the above situations, I don't advocate abortion; just think it is allowable and commend women who are physically and mentally able to carry their child to term. 

And I don't think it's right to regulate how many horsepower anyone's car has or how many ounces can be in a Big Gulp soda. Nutrition information on fastfood menus, yes; that's useful info, not restrictions. And as a parting comment, I'm very grateful for higher air and water quality standards. After, my adopted home state is the one where the Cuyahoga River once set on fire.

In peace in spite of our differences,

Sue

David,

I admit to knowing next to nothing about firearms, so maybe some of them have dual purposes. But I believe I meant that any limitation on the # of firearms would exclude guns for hunting or sport, like skeet shooting.

I think that you and others who disagree with any limits on the # of firearms any individual should be allowed to own just fundamentally disagree with me and others who think some limitations are justified. It just took me a long time to realize that this is an impasse for which there is no compromise, at least on this blog.

You and other readers/posters may feel differently, but it seems to me that this is an issue that sincere Christians can agree to disagree about.

Also, thanks for this discussion. I grew up around people with guns for hunting, and know a few folks who have a concealed weapon, but only 2 other people who have a defensive firearm at home. I appreciated the opportunity to learn about the point of view who consider having 2+ defensive firearms at home very important.

Mrs. McKeown,

This is an intersting discussion to follow, but I am somewhat confused by the distinction you are making between hunting-guns and non-hunting-guns.

Any gun can be used to devastating effect if one's aim is to take life. That is, after all, the entire point of the tool. And if the aim is to protect life by banning guns, then why would anyone stop at non-hunting-guns?

Dear Arwen B.,

Hunting firearms allow hunters to shoot animals for meat; often deer, but squirrel, rabbit, raccoon, muskrat, duck, goose, wild turkey, elk, bear, etc., although they can also be used to maim or kill. Other firearms, like semi-automatic weapons or small concealed-carry guns, have no purpose but to kill or maim, whether in defense of one's own family, property, or to attack someone who is attacking others.

Does that make sense?

Semi-automatics are often used in hunting.  And killing a human being is not inherently sinful, it depends on context.

Mrs. McKeown,

That is a clear distinction and easily understood, thank you.

But why would that distinction matter to those who are inclined to ban firearms? Any tool that can be used to kill an animal will work as well or better on a human.

"A free people ought not only to be armed and disciplined, but they should have sufficient arms and ammunition to maintain a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government." - George Washington

David,

One of my brothers-in-law relishes hunting and fishing (even ice fishing). He hunts for many animals in far northwestern Wisconsin, but primarily for deer in both gun and bow season. He says using a semi-automatic on deer doesn't give the deer a chance :=).

David,

You wrote,

And killing a human being is not inherently sinful, it depends on context.

It does. But isn't the legitimacy (or lack of sinfulness) of killing a human being a fine line, especially if the person is acting alone, or even if it was a police officer who fired the fatal shot? 

How do you define this line, realizing that we do not live in a theocracy and must make your arguments based on the good of our society and on very broadly-based Judiac-Christian principles (slightly off topic, but that we no longer stone adulters, for example).

Even atheists understand self-defense.  If someone broke into my home they are a de facto threat to my family and in the absence of some situation altering fact they will be stopped to the best of my ability.  Stopping them may result in their death.  (the whole concept of shooting to wound is for amateurs, almost nobody is a good enough shot to shoot at anything other than center mass, shooting to wound often means missing).

"If someone broke into my home they are a de facto threat to my family and in the absence of some situation altering fact they will be stopped to the best of my ability."

There are handguns designed precisely for this situation -- they are not very effective beyond a range of 30 feet. Their "paylyoad" -- while it can be as large as a .45 slug -- is ordinarily (1) birdshot, or (2) 3-slugs in .410 shotgun shell, or (3) 5 slugs in a .410 shotgun shell, or (4) 12 bb-shot AND 3 slugs, all in a long .410 shotgun shell.

I've seen paper target patterns from these revolvers. They do not require fine marksmanship; all you need to do is to point generally at the bad guy and pull the trigger.

Another feature I like about this gun is that it has little or no chance of penetrating thin sheetrocked walls and hitting someone in another room. A slug from my Dad's handgun would easily have left his bedroom, penetrated the exterior brick wall, entered his neighbor's bedroom through ~his~ brick wall and done considerable damage to the neighbor.

The point: for home defense ~inside the home~ you want to avoid high-powered weapons. The home-defense market has recognized this and designers have produced the weapon I've described.

David,

It's possible that I have a false sense of security, in addition to my abhorrence to use firearms to kill an intruder or even someone who has killed 1+ others unless there is no other possible option. 

Except for a brief period of time since high school, I've had college roommates or housemates, lived alone, or been married. I have lived in apartments, a rented house with roomies, a college dorm, rented condos, and two owner-occupied homes. All have been in middle-class sections in two midwestern states. Locations include city, suburbs, and an exurb fast becoming a suburb. When living alone, when housemates were all away on college breaks, or my husband has not been home I have never feared for my safety for one minute, even overnight or for several days. Knowing that God protects me is a big part of that, of course. 

But I've probably can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I've heard of a house or apartment break-in in whatever neighborhood I've lived in at the time. Never any shootings or rapes. If I had remained single, been "downsized"  and could only get a crummy job, and had to move to a much worse neighborhood, maybe I'd feel differently. But I really don't know.

I suspect gun (and other) crime is strongly related to young men growing up without fathers. A point Peter Hitchens mockingly makes in relation to the riots in the UK not so long ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UypfbAp5-bE

see from 4:28 and especially 7:25 onwards.

If this is true, then why is it a bad idea to limit gun-ownership to responsible people? - why would you not want to prevent the sorts of people Hitchens mentions from owning guns? Having been brought up with a father figure could be one of a number of legal screens introduced for owning a gun. In a society that vilifies fatherhood and therefore begets many more rioting sons we unfortunately we need to limit gun ownership.

Conversely, gun ownership could be required of people in positions that need to protect children, like school teachers.

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