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Bad design of Kenmore Elite Range Model 98053...

by Tim Bayly on October 11, 2012 - 12:20pm

When we moved two years ago, we had to give up our gas range because the gas company won't bring gas into our little subdivision. Too bad because Mary Lee much prefers cooking and baking with gas. We bought a Kenmore Elite Range Model 98053 and have been relatively pleased with it. We like having a small oven on top of the larger one and almost always use the smaller one--mostly for pizzas.

It has a flaw, though, that seems ridiculous. Take a look at these two pics and you'll see two things: first, that the oven windows are very dirty... See the lines of gunk running down the windows? I'll bet they make you go, "Yuck--why don't they clean the windows?"

Now it's time for the second pic. It's taken from on top of the door of the lower oven.

You're looking down on, and through, the ventilation holes in the top of the door. If you look closely, you'll see there is no seal or baffle keeping the insides of the two panes of glass from getting gunk between them. So you can clean the pane of glass closest to the oven on the inside AND you can clean the pane of glass closest to the person standing at the range on the outside. But you can't clean the other side of either pane of glass without taking the entire door apart!

Both panes of glass are two things equally dumb: inaccessible and completely exposed to hot cheese and dripping casseroles and humid gasses flowing down onto them and staining them permanently.

So why a post on this?

Because I spent some time looking for the problem on the web and couldn't find any mention of it. And every dummie who bought this stove and forgot to ask whether the two panes of glass have a seal keeping yucky stuff from getting between them and rendering the appearance of the range permanently ugly will now have only himself to blame when his otherwise kind and considerate houseguests walk through the kitchen and exclaim: "Eeeewww! Messy-messy! Why don't you clean your stove?"

Then too, I'm hopeful it will encourage Denver Todd to know someone besides him cares about the maintenance and design and serviceability of appliances.

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Comments

Submitted by Matt Miklovic on October 11, 2012 - 2:07pm

I had the same problem with by GE ovens.  The fix was relatively simple.  I don't know if it applies to your ovens.

1. Lift the oven door off of its hinges (Open the door and then slide off upward)

2. Lay the oven door flat on a table (on towel so as to not scratch) with the outside facing down

3. Remove small set screws all the way around metal frame of door

4. The frame lifts off and you can then access your windows to clean

5. Discard any extra parts and call a repairman to fix your mess (Optional)

Submitted by Bert Perry on October 11, 2012 - 5:57pm

I've had the same problem with all four stoves I've owned.  More or less, it's really difficult to seal things from 50F to 550F, especially so as you expose it to high humidity and salt from cooking--and that's even more difficult when you consider that the appliance makers probably have a budget for the seal of less than $5.

Why can't they seal it?  Well, if you seal both panes, you do a bunch of bad things.  First, the air in the window gets extremely hot, and with that comes extremely high pressure.  Think "boom" as 600-1000 lbs of force finds the easiest way out--that's how much pressure we're talking about, I estimate.  Then, with that extremely hot window comes another safety hazard as "little  one" touches it--burn!  Or, for that matter, when adult craving pizza touches it.

Making it easier to clean actually makes it worse--you need another seal, and then you need to legally deal with the numbskull who (per note 5 in first comment) forgets to put it back together correctly.  That's another safety hazard.  So ironically, this may be about as good as a moderate cost home oven can be in this regard.

Sorry to be such a downer, but sometimes physics will get ya!

Submitted by Denver Todd on October 11, 2012 - 8:19pm

Ok, I'll bite.  Your model number is incomplete.  Most Kenmore model numbers have this format: XXX.YYYYYYYY.  The XXX is the manufacturer number, since Kenmore is just a private label put on products made by others.  I suspect that yours is a Maytag heritage platform made by Whirlpool, since the former is now owned by the latter.  I don't work on ranges, but I bet if you find a corresponding model number of the manufacturer, you'll find more information on the problem. At least with the full Kenmore number I will put your pics on a tech bulletin board that I am a member of and I will see if anyone knows anything.

Submitted by Joseph Bayly on October 11, 2012 - 8:52pm

Of course you can't "seal" it. But there are lots of ways to avoid allowing stuff to drip straight down to the inside. Our oven certainly has no holes right there. It's vent turns 90 degrees, probably to avoid this problem.

Submitted by Denver Todd on October 12, 2012 - 12:08am

I posted your problem in the board, and there is one response so far: Take the door apart and clean the glass. Customers use a damp cloth to clean the door, if any water gets in the vent area of the door, it will cause this.

I guess this is similar to Matt's response.  I'll post more when more is more.

Submitted by Tim Bayly on October 12, 2012 - 2:20am

Joseph's response is exactly right. It doesn't take a sealed set of panes to keep gunk out of the interior glass. Check out the second pic: just not putting holes directly under the natural spillage area and directly above the interior between the two panes of glass would do just fine. Think about it: until this range failed us, we'd had many ranges and not one of them had gunk in between the two panes of glass.

But now, I have to take my oven doors off the oven and then take the doors apart to clean the glass!

Ask yourself: how many homeowners do you think are taking their oven doors off their ovens, setting them on a towel on the kitchen counter, getting out the Phillips screwdriver, and beginning to reduce the doors to their component parts--all so that they can clean the glass?

Smiling, I is.

Submitted by Tim Bayly on October 12, 2012 - 3:50pm

BTW, watching the stats on this site, I note that people regularly read the other two or so posts I've done over the years on consumer matters--one about the habitual failure of Honda Odyssey transmissions and the other about Duke Energy's misleading budget bill payment program. Google links people to these posts. This gives feedback to Honda, Duke, Kenmore, etc. for their future decisions.

I didn't expect anyone to care about this post beyond other consumers who have the same Kenmore Range and are wondering how in the world to clean their stoves' windows. Now they can google the issue and find the solution.

And after many years of watching companies with good customer service departments respond to complaints and suggestions (especially Marriott and Apple), I actually believe this post is likely to improve future Kenmore ranges.

Submitted by Michal on October 12, 2012 - 9:27pm

Yes, unfortunately this is a standard oven problem, not just KenMores. All my ovens have been like that. Grrrr...

Submitted by Denver Todd on October 12, 2012 - 10:03pm

The tech feedback that I have gotten suggests that cleaning and other liquids are what get down in there.  It is an unfortunate design, but not any worse that all the other stuff out there on major appliances.  You would be surprised how many repairs have to do with problems that the manufacturer is fully aware of.  And for all of you front load washer owners out there, get ready for major class action lawsuits having to do with odor and mildew issues, all brands, all manufacturers.  The first is coming down the pike in Ohio. 

Submitted by rob on October 17, 2012 - 9:55am

Have you ever wondered how many human body parts are like the Kenmore? Appendix, tonsils, tailbone, ACL tendon, sinuses, elbow "funny bone", shin bones, etc?

Then think about the major reason Darwin said that he couldn't believe we were created by an Intelligent Designer--that he could do a better job.

Food for thought.

Submitted by Daniel Meyer on October 18, 2012 - 12:01pm

>>> he couldn't believe we were created by an Intelligent Designer--that he could do a better job.

Rob, surely you're not going to put your lot in with the mockers and the blasphemers, are you?

"Woe to the one who quarrels with his Maker-- An earthenware vessel among the vessels of earth! Will the clay say to the potter, 'What are you doing?' Or the thing you are making say, 'He has no hands'? Woe to him who says to a father, 'What are you begetting?' Or to a woman, 'To what are you giving birth?'" - Isaiah 45:9-10

"He could do a better job"? Let's not talk like fools.

Submitted by Luda on November 19, 2012 - 6:36pm

Thank for you for your review. You might have saved another customer buying their product - that is until the company fixes the problem.

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