Tilting at windmills...

Over on a conservative Reformed blog, a couple men have been arguing that the church today is being threatened by some who are taking father-rule (they call it "patriarchy") too, too far. No one really wanted to be specific, but when pressed by the esteemed brothers Craig French and RCJr., the following list of practices was submitted as proof of this grave threat.

We are told that the men who pose this threat within the Church are those "suggesting..."

1. Suggesting that Christian mothers must home-school instead of public school to be faithful to God, even when those mothers are not gifted to do such.

This is a problem, but not of those who preach father-rule. It's the homeschool movement that falls into this error. But you know, everyone believes everyone else should do what they do--particularly with our children. Feeding on demand or by schedule; almost every mother will tell you which is necessary for the lifelong wellbeing of your children.

Not only is homeschooling militancy not the fruit of wacko father-rule, but for years I've found some of the most intense matriarchy within the homeschool movement and families. Lip service is paid to the rooster ruling the roost, but make no mistake about it: the hen rules the rooster. Let the elders of a church try admonishing some homeschool mothers and stick around for the show.

2. Suggesting that federalism, which traditionally has meant the doctrine of the federal headship of Adam and Christ, includes the idea of federal headship of husbands so that husbands are seen as representing their wives before God.

If by this the writer means praying for our wives and working toward their sanctification, I've seen this some and rejoiced at it. But that can't be what he means since Scripture commands those things. So what on earth is he talking about? Has he seen a husband who takes the Lord's Supper for his wife and eats it himself? Who attends worship and forces his wife to stay home? Who doesn't allow his wife to pray, telling her that he prays for her? I mean, this seems ridiculous and I've never seen anything even approximating it.

3. Suggesting that any church or denomination that sees the Scripture allowing for women deacons must be egalitarian and in rebellion against God.

Calvin and Warfield held similar positions in support of deaconesses. My wife and I grew up in a church that had an excellent Board of Deaconesses whose work and position were never confused with the work and position of our male deacons. Thus, I've always supported deaconesses, including back in the nineties in a "Table Talk" piece.

The problem now is that churches like Redeemer have confused the simpleminded. Redeemer uses woman deacons--not deaconesses--as Trojan horses to promote woman exercising authority over man so there are many who understandably conclude that the only two options are Redeemer's egalitarianism or no deaconesses.

It's the error of the excluded middle and this serves the purposes of egalitarians quite well. "You're against woman deacons? What's wrong with you? Don't you know John Calvin believed in woman deacons? You're wound pretty tight, aren't you?"

So yes, as long as Redeemer is seen to represent the pro-deaconess position, people will believe they must oppose Redeemer's egalitarian feminism by opposing deaconesses. It's shameful, but it's not the fault of the simple.

It's Redeemer's fault. Which reminds me of Chesterton saying, "To be wrong, and to be carefully wrong; that's the definition of decadence."

4. Suggesting Christian wives and mothers that seek any employment outside the home are unfaithful to God.

Off the top of my head I can't ever remember hearing anyone make this argument. Maybe others have, but as I said, I get around and I haven't.

What I have heard is those of us who argue that the Titus 2:5 command that women be "domestic" or "workers at home" has radical implications for the sort of work outside the home that women should and should not do are then accused of saying that we think a woman should never work outside the home. Once again we have the excluded middle. There is something in between women working as doctors while having their children cared for by others and a woman never earning any money outside the home.

In our feminist age, had we not already read the Holy Spirit's command to wives to "be domestic" found in Titus 2, if any pastor or Apostle gave this command, he'd be misrepresented as "suggesting Christian wives and mothers that seek any employment outside the home are unfaithful to God."

5. Not allowing wives and communicant daughters to vote in churches.

There are a maybe one and a half or two churches in these United States that do this, but really, it doesn't seem to be taking the world by storm. Women vote at ClearNote Church of Bloomington, but I think RCJR makes a good Biblical case in his response:

If the Bible forbids women to rule in the church, something I trust we can all agree on, and if a vote from the congregation, in certain circumstances, is binding, then would one have to accept the label “extreme” if one humbly suggested that in such circumstances women shouldn’t vote with the congregation? Or to put it another way, how would one reconcile a conviction that women are not to rule in the church (presumably why we don’t have women elders) with women voting in binding circumstances?

Thing is, who cares about the Creation Order any more? What we're all trying to do is stand precisely where we can make a show of being faithful to Scripture while avoiding any practice or preaching that would cause us to be labelled patriarch-monsters. What a terrible environment for reform--all of us falling over our own feet trying to get away from anyone accusing us of being patriarchs-gone-wild because we're the ones who normally read the Bible after supper.

6. Teaching that the Bible requires fathers to administer courtship rituals for their daughters instead of allowing dating (or courtship) at their own discretion.

This one's written so inexactly that it's impossible to deal with constructively. I'll simply say that the dating mess is real and we all know it. It's called fornication and reform hasn't been easy work. There have been many who claim to have found the solution and then fall off the other side into a Bill Gothardish engineer-run-amok scheme with flow charts attached. Still, this is not so much the fruit of preaching father-rule as mothers trying to control their daughters through their compliant husbands.

It's always been difficult to pry a mother's claws off her children so they're free to individuate, matrimate, and propagate.

7. Suggesting the Bible teaches the father is responsible to find marriage partners for their daughters.

You mean like Abraham? Or does that not count because it's a patriarch doing it, and that's what we're trying to avoid? Or does it not count because it's a son he's choosing a spouse for--not a daughter? That's funny, right?

What father doesn't work to find spouses for his children? What godly father doesn't pray for godly spouses for his children from the moment of conception; and after the child is born, every single night until the wedding ceremony? What godly father in his daughters' wedding ceremonies forbids the pastor from asking, "Who gives this woman to be married to this man?"

* * *
Had I been writing this list, I would have had examples I've actually seen. Let me give one.

There are men who refuse to allow their wives to participate in women's Bible studies. They justify it by citing the Holy Spirit's command that women should ask their own husbands at home in order to maintain silence in the church (1Corinthians 14:35). This is a real problem, today, and should be dealt with firmly. The simple solution is to cite Titus 2:3-5 commanding that older women teach the church's younger women, followed by a rather exhaustive and painfully practical curriculum for that instruction.

It's no violation of the Word of God to obey the Word of God.

(TB, w/thanks to Craig and RC)

Comments

Regarding insisting on homeschooling, I believe that's a portion of the homeschooling movement--it's worth noting that the HSLDA and MACHE (to which I belong) actively discourage the lazy from trying. Minor quibble, though; I've seen plenty of matriarchy in homeschooling, and it's just devastating to ALL involved, especially the "hen."

And I think what you're describing is Vision Forum, almost precisely. I've got my agreements and disagreements with Doug Philipps and others in his association, but have to note as well that I've seen some of the most vile slanders used against him, too.

I can't speak for anybody else, but I'm firmly convinced that I would be in great sin if my wife worked outside of the home while a stranger raised our children.

.

I have often heard you speak of the difference between having female deacons and deaconnesses. I am in agreement with you that we ought not have female deacons and that it is just a way to wiggle around the system to have women leading men. But, I was interested in knowing what would be the role of deaconnesses in the church versus (male, of course) deacons. Would this role be very similar to what is describe in Titus 2 about older women? Would they only be there to serve the women and the children of the church? I mean not to waste your time, so if you have already written about this, a link would be helpful.

>>Would they only be there to serve the women and the children of the church?

Dear Lauren,

Not "only," but rather principally those groups. Also the sick and dying. Historically, they've served in other critical ways including, when the elders or pastors meet with a woman, being ready to sit in the meeting and help with the counseling as well as serving as a protection to the purity of those present.

What they never have done, historically, is to be placed on a level with the male deacons, let alone teach and exercise authority over the male deacons and other men of the church as is true at Redeemer where a woman, for instance, is "Director" of the Diaconate.

Love,

WRT to #5. Not allowing wives and communicant daughters to vote in churches.

As recently as 10 years ago, a friend of mine and her husband belonged to a WELS Lutheran Church. She had no vote in congregational meetings, nor would any confirmed daughters still living under their roof. Their position was that the head of household voted on behalf on the entire family, except for confirmed sons still living at home.

She didn't know whether this was national WELS policy, policy at the district/region/diocese(?)level, or a decision made by their congregation on their own.

Is there any relationship between the "list of widows" Paul speaks of 1 Timothy 5 and the role of deaconess? I seem to remember Matthew Henry suggesting that Paul was speaking of an office in the early church in 1 Tim. 5.

Regarding church votes, I've generally taken the view that if my vote--or that of others in my family--matters that much to the good operation of the church, the church has bigger problems than the lack of my vote.

>>Is there any relationship between the "list of widows" Paul speaks of 1 Timothy 5 and the role of deaconess? I seem to remember Matthew Henry suggesting that Paul was speaking of an office in the early church in 1 Tim. 5.

Yes, a number take that view, and it seems likely.

Love,

Tim,

I believe you'd find a fair number of CREC congregations that do not allow women to vote, not to mention some of the other Presbyterian micro-fellowships, some of which are even stronger on some of these issues. And women working outside the home is, to some, out-of-bounds because the hubby can't have his wife "under someone else's authority." He's the king, you see. Finally, women are allowed to study the Bible with other women, provided it is ONLY concerned with laundry tips, breastfeeding schedules, knitting, and baking bread. Oh, wait. The Bible doesn't actually address any of that stuff, so we'd better err on the side of caution and just have them stay home.

Finally - and this is a howler - a father has the right not to teach his daughter to read... just because. It's his right, after all. And when queried facetiously with "So her husband will have to read the Bible to her," the response came, "Yep. Don't you know there were pre-literate cultures?"

I - and many others, I suspect - have seen all these things first-hand. It ain't pretty. So in rejecting the errors of feminism/egalitarianism, we need to remember that there's a ditch on the other side of the road in which there are piles of legalists who spy-out our freedom in Christ.

I kind of like the idea of one vote per household, because it emphasizes the role of the household. And that would naturally be the head of the household, the husband, voting.

Note, however, that some household heads are not men. Many households consist of a divorced woman and some children. Others consist of a single woman living alone.

Also, following the household rule, sons would not be allowed to vote if they still lived in the same household, e.g., a 22-year-old living at home.

A trickier question is what to do if Grandpa lives with the family. He is the senior man, but usually he is not the head of household.

Does any church actually follow a true household-vote rule?

I am interested in hearing how these men propose we respond to this threat? Preach/teach against it? Hand the men over to Satan? Blog? Write a book? Create a documentary? Make sure they don't become Elders? "Suggest" they consider visiting another church? Attend the annual Fathers & Daughters Against Patriarchy conference? Produce a entertaining radio series for kids that exposes the errors of Patriarchy?

The Patriarchs also perceive threats to the Church and have responded in line with some of the aforementioned suggestions. Those that think the message of the Patriarchs is the real threat have been unwilling to respond with the same zeal and clarity. Mischaracterizations, anecdotal evidence and conversations defining the distinction between the Kingdom of man and the Kingdom of God to include a Gospel centered understanding of the imperative in light of the indicative making sure to fully soak the imperatives in the indicatives of the Gospel narrative lest one end up in a moralistic, legalistic dead Church requiring serious recalibration by the Gospel...doesn't count.

>Finally - and this is a howler - a father has the right not to teach his daughter to read... just because. It's his right, after all. And when queried facetiously with "So her husband will have to read the Bible to her," the response came, "Yep. Don't you know there were pre-literate cultures?"

You know most folk recognize there is a difference between having the right to do something and that thing actually being the right thing to do.

I hadn't been by there for awhile but saw that discussion and it struck me that in many instances R2K seems to exist so as to allow men to adopt the norms, in their daily lives, of a godless society. It also has led Todd Bordow being added to the list of extremists like Z***. And it highlights the relative moderation of someone like Darryl Hart.

You know, it never ceases to amaze me how quickly people are willing to discard a system of beliefs based on the extreme behavior of a group who may hold to a form of those beliefs. It is like saying that because of pharisees and legalists, we ought to throw out the law. Then again, some would say that because of those who take their license too far, we ought to pitch out grace in response.
Oh, and we all know that Christianity ought to be abandoned altogether because of the bad behavior of the crusaders, the inquisition and those nasty folks over in Salem.
After all, pitching out the baby with the bathwater in order to do what seems right in our own eyes is always easier than unflinchingly, trustingly, and carefully studying God's Word.

Thanks for answering my question Pastor Bayly!

I just want to comment that if my family had been more involved in praying for a good mate for me, and if my pastor had expressed the thoughts he apparently had that my first 2 spouses were absolutely wrong for me (one an abusive drunk, one an unrepetant adulteror), I may not have been through 2 divorces by the time I turned 30. I'm not sure how I feel about all the different rules and regulations some put on courtship, betrothal, etc. but definitely, because of my own experience, think the parents and church should be more involved in helping young people make the right decision regarding a spouse.

Add new comment