The wine of the passion of her immorality...

And another angel, a second one, followed, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality.” - Revelation 14:8

Son-in-law Lucas forwarded this interview on the future of the internet with Dr. Hamadoun Touré, General Secretary of the International Telecommunications Union. The ITU is an agency of the United Nations with a mandate to make sure the internet "runs smoothly, and that governments don't get in the way of their citizens' unfettered access to communications."

Dr. Touré recommends that countries avoid English if they wish...

to develop their own internet content and the ability to profit from it. He thinks it will take decades for nations to come to an agreement on laws governing the internet. And he believes once a country allows its citizens access to free communication, particularly over the internet, it will be impossible for them to shut it down. In his own words: "when [citizens] taste the freedom of the internet they won't give it back."

Reading his comments about developing countries keeping away from English because of the impossibility of competing with the content sold by these United States, I'm reminded of this prophesy from John's Apocalypse:

After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory. And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, “Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird. For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality.”

I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.’ For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.

And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’ And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble, and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives. The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them. The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls; for in one hour such great wealth has been laid waste!’ And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance, and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, ‘What city is like the great city?’ And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, ‘Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!’ Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her.” (Revelation 18:1-20)


"Come out of her..."

What does this mean? I think that's the question to answer here.

That jumped out at me too. "What? Where shall we go?"


I've thought of this passage in this light for year.

Fascinating, Daniel and David. I remember in high school and college, that the more I learned about the USA, the more I wanted to move somewhere else, thinking this place was doomed. But where is there to go? Sure, other countries have different sins, but they all have major problems. In other words, I make the case that physically moving isn't the solution. Anybody want to make the case that I'm wrong?

Anybody want to assume I'm right and then answer the next logical question, which is, "If it doesn't mean we should physically move, then what does it mean?"


>>"But where is there to go? Sure, other countries have different sins, but they all have major problems."
>> "If it doesn't mean we should physically move, then what does it mean?"

This sounds just like how I sound when I'm trying to dodge a passage of Scripture and close my eyes to its meaning.

I've certainly got my eyes open on this one now. Thanks (sort of) for bringing this up.

No, I mean it -- thanks.

The devil has been attacking the United States from the founding, untiring, at every step, and you blame the United States and not the devil. It seems to me you are harboring some old leftist political nonsense about America being the evil in the world (probably you held this belief during the time China was still slaughtering millions and the Soviet Union had just slaughtered scores of millions). Now you'll break out your statistics on abortion as if every American is guilty of child sacrifice, literally handing over the unborn infants into the flames of Molech. Frankly I'm disgusted by such political and moral idiocy. The Psalmist said the world will turn our glories into shame. That is what you do to America. Shame on you. It's disgusting.


Are you sure who you are worshipping? I love America but I don't want her for an idol. The current rulers of America facilitate and permit the free-lance killing of millions of infants. That sort of blood guilt isn't anything like the leftist canards about American guilt. Every citizen of the Soviet Union wasn't an atheistic mass murderer but the Soviet Union was an evil empire with the blood of the saints on its hands. I challenge you to love America enough to be clear-eyed in understanding her guilt and pray for mercy and repentance rather than justice for our nation.

With brotherly affection, it seems odd to see Presbyterians trying to wrap their heads around a hard prophetic passage in an eschatological book of the bible, and sounding (I'm sorry,) at first read a little like that 'Left Behind' guy.

Yet it is God's word and we have to try. As a layman, and even a Premillenialist,I'll offer this. It surely looks like an impassioned protest and denunciation and judgement of some people, somewhere, sometime! If God meant primarily to warn and exhort all people, everywhere, all through the 'Church Age', if that term is OK to use when in the presence of Presbyterians, :) it seems that He would have been able to straightforwardly say so. (Is it wrong to think like that when dealing with scripture? I know we're to come to it humbly.) In short, looks very like ancient Rome. The USA had a slave trade, stopped that, and has traded with, but not subjugated the world. The judgement is "for you" [Christians] and "against her". The "Babylon" mentioned by the NT writers seems to have been a present-tense reality of their day.

If, OTOH, the point of the reference to Revelation is simply that moral decay like Rome's could meet an end in judgement like hers, yes. Horrors. But yes. That possibility exists.

Primarily the harlot Babylon represents all the earth's wickedness, not these present-day United States. But does that mean we shouldn't draw inferences? No, we need to draw appropriate inferences. The Lord sent angels to Sodom to tell Lot basically, "Come out of her". We would be fools to not be watching for such a time for us here -- even as we pray for mercy and warn souls of the coming judgment.

...and manfully work in hope: perhaps God will grant repentance to our nation and turn us back to Him even now!

>> It surely looks like an impassioned protest and denunciation and judgement of some people, somewhere, sometime! If God meant primarily to warn and exhort all people, everywhere, all through the 'Church Age' seems that He would have been able to straightforwardly say so.

The warnings in Hebrews 9 and 10 surrounding the truth that "it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" surely do not lead us to say that the fury of God climaxed in the time of ancient Rome, do they?

"How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? For we know Him who said, "VENGEANCE IS MINE, I WILL REPAY." And again, "THE LORD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God."
- Hebrews 10:29-31 NASB

I hope you are not saying that the unrepentant can take comfort that the fury of God's wrath is in the past. Woe to them on that Day if they do not repent!

Or are you saying, "No, it will be as bad as you can possibly imagine -- just not like Revelation 18" ?

Add new comment