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"But really, he's just not one of them..."

by David and Tim Bayly on May 13, 2011 - 7:21am

Here's an excellent summary of the pastor of Redeemer Presbyterian in Manhattan by a fan of Scot McKnight and the Bishop of Durham. Don't miss the first comment.

(TB)

Tags: 
Reformed world
Discernment
PCA
Deacons - Deaconesses
Homosexuality
Gelded discourse
Emergent church
Inclusivism & open theism

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Comments

Submitted by Dan Phillips on May 13, 2011 - 7:35am

I left a comment, fwiw.

[NOTE FROM TB: Dear Dan, we require e-mail addresses, so maybe that's the problem? And yet this comment got through without an e-mail address, so who knows? Maybe the easiest thing is for you to simply send your comments to me and I'll post them. Hope you're well, dear brother. Regardless, we'd all be interested in what you had to say, believing it would, in fact, be worthwhile. Love, Tim]

Submitted by Kevin Jackson on May 13, 2011 - 7:39am

One of the greatest indictments of groups like The Gospel Coalition from the article, to me, is:

"My prediction is that TGC at least will keep Keller around; but not because they like him. They’ll keep him around because he’s respectable."

For me, Keller crossed the "lines in the sand" a long time ago and I marvel to see men I otherwise respect falling all over themselves in admiration for him and his writing/preaching/teaching.

Submitted by Dan Phillips on May 13, 2011 - 8:19am

No no, thanks but I mean I left a comment at the blog to which you link. And it's showing there. As for your blog, I think I logged in with my Facebook account.

And you have my email.

(c:

Submitted by David & Tim Bayly on May 13, 2011 - 8:30am

>>I mean I left a comment at the blog to which you link...

Sorry. Good comment.

Love,

Submitted by David J. Wegener on May 14, 2011 - 4:50am

Dear Tim: Not very pleased with your comments over at the blog to which you linked. I understand you as throwing in the towel on the PCA. Way too early, brother. Love, David

Submitted by David & Tim Bayly on May 14, 2011 - 1:11pm

>>Dear Tim: Not very pleased with your comments over at the blog to which you linked. I understand you as throwing in the towel on the PCA. Way too early, brother.

Dear David,

For those who didn't bother checking it out, here's what was said over at the other blog. In the comments the blog owner asked, "Tim B. would you want Keller out of the PCA if he didn’t repent of some of these public statements?" I responded, "No. He’s the right image for the PCA. Trying to remove him would be akin to trying to remove creosote from a railroad tie."

Any successful effort to remove Tim Keller from the PCA would be a Pyrrhic victory. The tall steeple men would resent those who had done the work of reform; the workers would be bloody and tired; and there would still be Redeemer clones everywhere with Covenant churning out more each year.

Can't imagine why it offends you for me to say the obvious--particularly because we've never had an iota of disagreement concerning the PCA since the day we entered Great Lakes Presbytery together back in 1992.

Love,

Submitted by B Kirchner on May 16, 2011 - 12:41am

Pastor Wegener,

Why the optimism? Most of the news from the PCA is not encouraging.

The flagship seminary produces men who love the grace, grace, grace based preaching that will not address sin.

When you come home on furlough you will not see much of the discouraging side of things. As you visit churches you will be warmly received because everyone loves missionaries. After all we will heartily support you financially and not have to interrupt our comfy life styles... It is easy to throw a few $$ out to soothe our consciences and make everyone feel good.

You won't see sessions that have good business men and nice guys but who are not sound in doctrine or able to teach.

You won't see the inner workings of the sessions as they brush aside talk of dealing with sin by slathering the sin with grace and then move on to run a business.

Back in the fall of 2010 you were asking for prayer for Zambia that the Spirit would not leave the church in our unfaithfulness. You pointed to Iain Murray's book Old Evangelicalism to describe the problem with preaching. No fear of God,no fear of sinning, the grace of God trampled under foot.

That dear brother is the type of preaching that I see/hear in the PCA. Having been through a pastoral search recently and an empty pulpit with many flowing through for pulpit supply, the witness is - slim pickins for sound preaching.

The GA may not have voted to accept homosexuality or fornication yet but there is no shame in these sins anymore nor is there preaching against them nor in many cases discipline to lovingly deal with the sins to restore sinners.

They may not have voted to allow women in leadership but the vast majority will not preach the truth on Titus 2.

Without repentance and revival... it might just be that the Lord is allowing us to reap what we've sown.

Submitted by David J. Wegener on May 16, 2011 - 7:31am

Tim: I understand what you've said and also accept that you're not giving up the fight. I also realize the odds that are against us in fighting the battle. Maybe I'm the out-of-touch idiot who can't read the writing on the wall. I appreciate all the work that you and David do through this blog and in may other forums. Don't stop. You inspire us and help us focus on the gaps in the wall.

And your reminder of the day we entered Great Lakes Presbytery back in 1992 makes me smile. I will always remember the look on your face as you walked up the aisle after being called back before Presbytery (after your exam and the brief discussion that followed).

With love, David

Submitted by David J. Wegener on May 16, 2011 - 7:38am

And Mr Kirchner, I can't disagree with anything you've written. I've also read Murray on "Evangelicalism Divided," and I can't disagree with him either. Perhaps I'm holding out hope that we (the PCA) might still be surprised by God's grace and that it might come in the form of a conviction of sin.

Submitted by David & Tim Bayly on May 16, 2011 - 7:46am

>>the PCA) might still be surprised by God's grace and that it might come in the form of a conviction of sin.

May God be pleased!

Much love,

Submitted by B Kirchner on May 16, 2011 - 8:01am

Pastor Wegener,

FYI - it is Mrs! and a proud wife of a man who has been much bloodied in the battle.

I pray that it might be that God would indeed be truly gracious and visit us with the gifts of conviction of our sin and repentance.

Please note I meant no offense to you. I just know the battle is miserably hard and there are times to walk away.

We do appreciate you and your wife and family and the example of meekness and humility that you exhibit as well as firm convictions to defend truth.

Submitted by Ben S on May 17, 2011 - 7:55pm

Its good to see others showing appreciation for Tim Keller. If only there were more like him in the PCA.

Submitted by David Gray on May 18, 2011 - 3:16am

>>If only there were more like him in the PCA.

There will be, there will be...

Submitted by David & Tim Bayly on May 18, 2011 - 5:42am

Note above the man or woman identifying himself or herself as "Ben S" in his or her comment. On a hunch, I checked him or her out and found he or she's been using a number of false identities here on Baylyblog for over five years, now. He or she has posted under "Ben," "Ben S," "Brian," "John," "John Green," and maybe one or two other false names. His or her locations have gone from Athens, GA to Greenville, SC and Nashville, TN (although his or her latest was Columbus, IN).

He or she is a devious man or woman. In one of his or her more innocuous exchanges with others under a particular post, he or she had been identifying himself or herself as "Brian," then slipped up and used the name "John" for one of his or her comments. The next comment, he or she said "Oops. Last comment was me. Not sure how 'John' got in there." But "John" got in there because frequently on this blog he or she has posted under that name. In other words, he or she forgot which lie he or she was using under which post.

If you're going to comment here on Baylyblog, don't lie.

This man or woman has commented scores of times, and I suppose it's some consolation that he or she is almost always fomenting rebellion against the Word of God. There's a certain internal logic when a man or woman claims to honor Scripture in promoting feminism and then lies about his or her name, also.

Note carefully that he or she has long been a big promoter of the pastor of Redeemer in New York City.

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