The lost sheep and his shepherds...
(Tim) This is copied from the discussion under an earlier post, "If they desire his help...," and it may be helpful for readers to read that post and discussion, first. But the subject matter of the discussion is so important for the good of the Church and our readers' own souls and families that I'm posting this extended response here, on the main page.
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For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost. (Jesus; Luke 19:10)
The issue is simple. Shepherds are gifted, called, and ordained to shepherd a particular flock of particular souls. This means going after the one lost sheep. Jesus our Good Shepherd came after us when we were His enemies and didn't welcome His interest and pastoral care. Remember, He died?
And if you've worked with sheep (or goats or cattle), you know that one lost sheep often is perfectly opposed to being brought back to the sheepfold. Sometimes he must be manhandled to get him to safety. This is the reason David, in Psalm 23, says...
"Thy rod and thy staff, they comfort me." Discipline is a great comfort to redeemed souls because, according to Hebrews 12, it is proof of the Father's love. So, also, it's proof of the love of His undershepherds.
As the Holy Spirit says in Hebrews 12, sons who aren't disciplined are illegitimate sons (12:8). This is why I rejoiced to hear of a church excommunicating one of its members. Such kindness and love for the sinner is so rare, today. Pastors and elders are too busy scratching itching ears, pandering to their sheep, to seek out the lost one and bring him home.
And that is one of the purposes of discipline--to return the lost sheep to God's flock. Even the most severe form of discipline--excommunication--often produces the fruit of repentance and the sinner's return to Christ's flock.
But all the above is largely disconnected with the point of the post directing attention to the pastor's comment. My concern is that any man in the pastorate would think, let alone say in public, that his shepherding of one of his sheep at a time of glaring and very public scandal ought only to be given if requested.
Lost sheep are lost, after all. And a good shepherd, like our Good Shepherd, seeks them out knowing very well he might have his hands full when he finds them. We don't sleep in the sheepfold at night with our ears half-cocked for a bleat at the bottom of a ravine two miles off, on the other side of the mountain as the wind howls.
One last thing: If a man or woman commits adultery and is unrepentant, the shepherd goes after the adulterer precisely because he cares for the innocent spouse and children--not just the adulterer.
What is obscene is the frequent practice of pastors and elders washing their hands of the situation, allowing the adulterer to adulterate both his family bed and the Church, Herself.
Too many times, I've heard of a man committing adultery, casting off the wife of his youth and their children, then being allowed to show up in church with young flesh as everyone watches, including his children. Not a word of rebuke, let alone an act of discipline, from the pastor or elders. With impunity he sits there with his trophy wife, across the sanctuary from his abandoned first wife and precious children.
But he has nothing to fear. The pastor and elders are waiting for him, his first wife, his children, or his second wife to indicate they want help.
One final matter: like Scripture, adultery is a constant in every church. The only distinction between churches is those that, from love, see it and act pastorally; and those who, out of lovelessness, cultivate blindness and are passive when that blindness is insufficient to hide the sad truth.
Any reader who is in the second kind of church should leave, immediately, and find a church where there are shepherds after God's Own heart.
It's a simple truth that a shepherd who refuses to go out seeking the lost sheep is leading a church where church discipline is absent; but also, a church where the preaching of the Word of God and the administration of the Sacraments are not done rightly--Biblically.
In other words, the marks of the church are absent and it's no true church.
Love in Christ, our Shepherd and Lamb,
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>>> Have any of you actually ever
>>> walked through the effects of
>>> adultery with church members?
Ummm, yes. Several times.
In the same congregation.
Its expectations of pastoral care in cases of marital infidelity (or the divorce of Christians on any other grounds, for that matter) were decidedly different from what the Scriptures impelled me to undertake.
I wasn't asked about the details of marital breakups by the press (thanks be to God; at least that helped diminish the scope of the scandal). I was challenged by many, some of them elders, as to why and on what grounds I was initiating pastoral intervention into the private lives of adulters or a spouse who claimed "enough was enough" after years of dysfunctional marriage.
In the end, I was successful in getting two elders to accompany me on pastoral visits to erring men and women, to plead with them to repent, to warn them of temporal and eternal consequences of their unrepented sin. That was the end of it, though, for the elder board was deadlocked on how to proceed when the sinner so challenged continued in his sin, even when they had the evidence of one man who fully and publically repented.
Accordingly, I tendered my resignation as their pastor, as I was unable to function as a pastor. The Board did not want a pastor. Rather, they wished for someone similar to Pastor Surratt.
That experience, in my first pastorate 30 years ago, continues to shape my pastoral ministry to this day. It has barred me from the big, cool churches (who don't want a trouble-maker on staff). Looking back, I am frequently grateful for that. In a small church, a pastor can actually know his sheep, live with them, among them, share his life with them, partake of their life, joys, struggles, and victories.
And, guess what? Pastoral "intervention" isn't so difficult in that kind of pastorate, for it can happen very early, when a knowing, resolute, and gentle admonition is simple to deliver and easy to receive. And, as I have repented myself of sin as their pastor, I have encouraged them to do the same.
"Pastoral" ministy that offers to help if someone should happen to want it is no different from what Dr. Phil offers.
Preach it. I remember being blessed as the pastors of a church I was visiting in Alabama dedicated the morning sermon to the unpleasant business facing the church that night--of excommunicating an unrepentant man. The sermon pointed out that God and the world both expect the church to judge in these things.
Another point of reference with Seacoast, for what it's worth, is their handling of a famous child-rearing teacher who is estranged from his own children and has been disciplined by no fewer than three churches. There is at least some data that would indicate that church discipline is not being practiced there.
With a few happy exceptions, most pastors in my experience are loath, very loath, to implement church discipline.
And of course, there are a lot of false shepherds out there who themselves need to be disciplined, and are not.
This is a comment for WarreninSC from the previous thread. I agree with your caveat.
It seems that you are suggesting that the PCA churches could do more w.r.t. the medical ministry. We do have some medical students (albeit very few) at our church. I'm not very familiar with the medical ministry (though I have known lots of folks involved with it). Is there a website that you could link me to so that I could learn more (maybe we could have more of an impact in this regard). Thanks
Tim,
Love it, brother.
Tell me: how will CGS still cultivate pastor/elder-influenced men, women, and children if its fellowship groups - which are geared for instruction and care - aren't led by elders? Or did I misunderstand and they ARE?
That is, if elder-pastors (or pastor-elders) are the ones who must give an account and to whom the layman owes obedience and submission, doesn't it only make sense that they have lots of "face-time" (formally and informally) with their sheep - the "small-group" time being one of the chief means of oversight?
Thanks...
TO; Rich Hamlin:
The home page of the Charleston branch:
http://www.ecbconline.com/templates/System/details.asp?id=32443&PID=494072
The Augusta GA (Medical College of GA) branch is hosted by 1st Pres PCA, the three Medical campus chapter in Philly is hosted by 10th Pres.
Thank you for proclaiming God's way. It is the best.
Many ministers neither proclaim the gospel of the kingdom nor proclaim sound doctrine. Our Christian culture is greatly influenced by the world. We buy a lot of worldly baloney and bring it to church. Tolerance is substituted for conscience. This begins in our schools. Our secular education systems teach tolerance and our culture perpetuates it. Tolerance leads to indifference toward God. Those we view as our cultural leaders frown on punishment for evil more than they frown on evil. In politically correct churches, the world’s value systems are substituted for the gospel of the kingdom.
Politically correct Christians have adopted our cultural vocabulary to hide sin. We refer to thieves as socially deprived victims. We refer to shack up partners of different or same sexes as the significant other, even if one or the other is still married. We don’t refer to children born out of wedlock as bastards. The sad part is, many who practice evil demand the respect of being considered Christian and even demand to be and are ordained as Christian ministers. We have learned to be tolerant of sin in our midst. As a result, our Christian culture promotes indifference to God.
Up into the 1980’s, Americans in general still had a residual of respect for the God of creation. Even if they didn’t believe in Him, they knew about Him and they had a sense He could help them in time of trouble. Most knew the difference between right and wrong, good and evil. If they stole, they recognized it as sin. If they fornicated, they recognized it as sin. If they committed adultery, they recognized it as sin.
Tolerance of sin in our midst obfuscates the need for a Savior. Very little of the gospel of the kingdom is taught and most Christians are scripturally illiterate. It is no wonder unbelievers can’t see any reason to believe in the anything goes and all ways lead to god.
According to George Barna, “Faith, of whatever variety, is increasingly viral rather than pedagogical. With people spending less time reading the Bible, and becoming less engaged in activities that deepen their biblical literacy, faith views are more often adopted on the basis of dialogue, self-reflection, and observation than teaching. Feelings and emotions now play a significant role in the development of people’s faith views – in many cases, much more significant than information – based exercises such as listening to preaching and participating in Bible study.”
One the other hand, many people don’t understand the gospel of the kingdom because they are affronted, alienated and confused and by judgmental and legalistic Christians. Such Christians on the one hand say, “Jesus loves you.” On the other hand their attitude says, “Your actions are evil, you are evil and you are on the road to hell. Have a great life.”
Even though God’s throne is established on justice and righteousness, He does not draw people to Himself by judgment. He helps people get to know Him by His love, His Word and His Spirit. Jesus came to seek and save the lost. He always spoke to the lost with love, grace and truth. He said, “Come to me, all who are tired from carrying heavy loads and I will give you rest. Place my yoke over your shoulders, and learn from me, because I am gentle and humble. Then you will find rest for yourselves because my yoke is easy and my burden is light” (Matthew 11:28-30).
In terms of how *not* to exercise church discipline, our Pentecostal friends are giving us an excellent example in the case of Todd Bentley. Another ministry (Rick Joyner's) is trying to rehabilitate Todd, with the aim of getting him back into ministry. This despite Bentley's divorce, shockingly sudden remarriage, and a horde of doctrinal errors. Big parts of the Pentecostal community are in agreement with Rick doing this, others (such as Charisma Magazine editor Lee Grady) are in revolt at the thought.
I grew up in the Pentecostal tradition at a time when it did understand church discipline, so to see the need for discipline ignored (justice must not only be done, it must be seen to be done), is depressing.
Let's say you find someone committing adultery, and as a pastor you go to him and he repents. Yes, in the first visit, he repents. So, I am wondering, is your job done, or has it just begun? If the latter, what is your next step, being intentional in relationships and all that.
I would have to think that even in that (methinks unlikely) situation, somebody needs to do some counseling and accountability. Sexual sin tends to be life dominating that way--and a lot of other sins too.
I'd love to hear what our gracious hosts and others have to say about that, too. Denver Todd has asked an appropriate question IMO.
Not all sinners have to be gone after. Some willingly repent of what ever they have done, and an intuitive pastor will know how to bring the sinner to repentance. After all, a sinner is lost, and repentance can be a hard one to come to without some help to get him there. That's my opinion, and I say that from personal experience. So, once at repentance, the sinner can either be slapped on the back for having come back to right relationship with God and church, or there can be intentional pastoring for a period time. Tim suggests this throughout his post, that a pastor, true to his calling, will be intentional in pastoring and shepherding.
>>Tell me: how will CGS still cultivate pastor/elder-influenced men, women, and children if its fellowship groups - which are geared for instruction and care - aren't led by elders? Or did I misunderstand and they ARE?
That is, if elder-pastors (or pastor-elders) are the ones who must give an account and to whom the layman owes obedience and submission, doesn't it only make sense that they have lots of "face-time" (formally and informally) with their sheep - the "small-group" time being one of the chief means of oversight?
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Dear Matt,
I'm sorry it took me so long to answer.
First, you're right; we have men who aren't elders leading our Home Fellowship Groups. Some are elders and pastors, but others are deacons, students in ClearNote Pastors College, or men of the church we trust with this work.
Why aren't all the groups led by elders?
Because we don't have enough pastors and elders to do so. Our participation rate is close to 95%, so it would be impossible to limit leadership in this way.
Does this limit face time and does the knowledge of the flock on the part of the elders suffer as a consequence?
No, I don't think so. Our pastors and elders are so constantly involved in teaching, exhorting, rebuking, and encouraging their loved ones of the congregation that intentionally limiting Home Fellowship Group leadership to them in order to assure intimacy between sheep and shepherds would not increase that intimacy. Pastors and elders are involved in these groups as it is.
This may sound unlikely to those whose experience is not in churches with old-fashioned fellowship and pastoral care provided by their pastors and elders, but we work hard at this commitment, as I know you and Tom do, also.
Finally, one of the most significant reasons we use men not yet ordained to the eldership to lead these groups is that we see this leadership as a training ground for church officers. Often, they do their work next to a pastor, elder, or deacon who is a part of their group, and so teaching moments are constant.
Still, your question is a good one and I thank you for asking.
Love,
how do we encourage our elders to be more involved
zach the stuffed shirt
please dont respond to my last request thanks zach
OK dear brother; love to you and yours.
thanks
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