Tony Campolo, evangelical Christian college profs, Obama, abortion, sodomy, and Hell...

Professor Campolo claims to be an orthodox Christian but his son, Bart, denies both Hell and the God Who made it--and he does it without blushing. Professor Campolo's an orthodox Christian? Really?

Your link doesn’t really link to that article or whatever you were trying to show.

What do you mean he denies Hell and the God that made it? That he denies God since he denies Hell? Or is he an atheist?

Does Bart’s views have a direct bearing on Prof. Campolo’s orthodoxy for some reason? (perhaps he is in his Church or something)

On Hell…

I notice that the Church (even the reformed Church) has modified its view on the nature of hell from what it taught 400 years ago. Aside from the basic confessions and creeds, what are the best things to read to get the orthodox theology on this issue? In your view is Hell a dogmatic in that it has to be believed (eternal conscience punishment) for one to be saved?

I was raised in a cult that believed in soul sleep and annihilation; I held on to the annihilation belief for quite a while, but repented of it when I began to understand some of the fallacies in their arguments. However, I have wondered since if there is more work for the Church to do on this issue?

>What do you mean he denies Hell and the God that made it? That he denies God since he denies Hell?

Justin Taylor did http://theologica.blogspot.com/2006/11/gospel-according-to-bart.html a post on Bart Campolo's article, "The Limits of God's Grace," published in Youth Specialties' "Journal of Student Ministries." Since publishing the piece, Youth Specialties pulled it from their web site, somehow even getting Google to remove their cached copy. When Youth Specialties removed the article, they http://theologica.blogspot.com/2006/11/campolo-update.html indicated their reason for doing so was to avoid anyone erroneously concluding that they agreed with the things Bart Campolo had written. Note that they did not say they were removing it because Bart Campolo had repented of his heresy.

Anyhow, I've read the entire piece. In fact, until I deleted it a few months ago, I had a copy on my hard drive. Here's an excerpt that sums up the whole:

* * *

From Bart Campolo's, "The Limits of God's Grace:"

"Some might say I would be wise to swallow my misgivings about such stuff [like God's sovereignty, wrath, hell, etc.], remain orthodox, and thereby secure my place with God in eternity. But that is precisely my point: If those things are true, then God might as well send me to Hell. For better or worse, I simply am not interested in any God but a completely good, entirely loving, and perfectly forgiving One who is powerful enough to utterly triumph over evil. Such a God may not exist, but I will die seeking such a God, and I will pledge my allegiance to no other possibility because, quite frankly, anything less is not worthy of my worship."

"Please, don’t get me wrong. I am well aware that I don’t get to decide who God is. What I do get to decide, however, is to whom I pledge my allegiance. I am a free agent, after all, and I have standards for my God, the first of which is this: I will not worship any God who is not at least as compassionate as I am."

* * *

>Do Bart’s views have a direct bearing on Prof. Campolo’s orthodoxy for some reason?

Fruit, fruit, and more fruit, dear brother. This is emphasized by the Apostle Paul writing that the men Titus moves into the eldership must be men "having children who believe" (Titus 1:6).

So, answer me this:

Was Jesus liberal or conservative?

You seem to hold sway over the opinions of others based upon some of the comments written above, but I wonder, is that something you have surrendered to God?

And your judgment of Mr. Campolo (something that seems to utter frequently from the mouths of those who claim an evangelical mantle, but are really politicians using the church for worldly kingdom building, rather than Kingdom building), have you spoken to him?

"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way."

And you seem to know whether Senator Obama is a Christian or not. Interesting. Really? How did God provide you with that power of judgment?

"Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it."

"Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love."

"Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."

"Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ."

"Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you."

"Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God."

"Therefore encourage one another and build each other up."

"But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness."

"And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds."

"Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart."

"Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble."

Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble."

"But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin."

"Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God."

"Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another."

"No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us."

Judging from your writing, brother, I am missing the fruit of the Spirit that is referenced in God's Word.

Just a thought about the words you use, the judgment's you make and the way you go about publicizing it all for the world to see.

So, what's the answer to the question I first asked?

Here is the entire article by Bart Campolo referenced by Tim. Sadly, it is a perfect example of what is being passed off as Christianity.

_______________________________________

A few years ago, after being politely asked to depart early from yet another speaking engagement for giving the wrong answer to a question about the limits of God’s mercy, I decided it wasn’t fair to keep sneaking up on unsuspecting Evangelicals.

Strange as it seems to me, I know all too well that to proclaim a God compassionate enough to seek the rescue of every one of his children—and powerful enough to pull it off—is a dangerous scandal to such folks. In a very real way, they don’t even hope for universal salvation. After all, without the fear of their unsaved loved ones’ eternal damnation, how would they motivate one another for outreach and missionary service? And yet, almost everywhere I go, I meet people—especially young people—who are not motivated at all by such fear. On the contrary, these people are utterly horrified by the notion of a Heavenly Father who essentially says to his children, “I love you, but if for any reason you fail to accept that fact before your mortal body expires, I will kill and torture you for all eternity.” Especially if that same Heavenly Father holds in hand all the reasons the children do or don’t accept in the first place. These are the people who ask me the questions that used to lead to my early departures, and who write me letters and emails like this one:

Dear Bart

This might be kind of weird, but I have a question for you. I lived and worked among the poor with Mission Year in the inner-city of Atlanta last year. When you came to visit my team, you told a story about how when you first started working in rough neighborhoods, you got to know a girl who was gang-raped as a nine-year-old and—after her Sunday School teacher told her God must have allowed it for a reason—rejected God forever. Because you believed God was indeed in control, and because you believed that girl’s lack of faith doomed her to eternal damnation, you decided that God must be a ‘cruel bastard.’ You sort of said the words inside my head out loud, words I had wanted to say for a long time. Anyway, after putting this off for almost a year, I want to know how you reconciled that. How did you make it from, “God is a cruel bastard” back to “I can trust him”? I can’t seem to make that leap. Sometimes I begin to really trust him, but as soon as I think about my past abuse and those I know and love who are bound for Hell, it just doesn’t add up. I want to know the God you know—who apparently allows for horrible things in this world to happen, yet remains pure and holy and trustworthy and faithful and loving. I don’t know if any of this makes sense to you, but as I was wrestling with it again today I was reminded of you and hoped you might be of some help.

Sarah

Dear Sarah,

Thank you for writing to me. Over the past few years, I have become convinced that yours is actually the single most important question in the world. As Rabbi Harold Kushner observes, “Virtually every meaningful conversation I’ve had with people about God has either started with that question or gotten around to it before long.” While I am sure my answer will not be as eloquent as his, I will do my best. First of all, while I certainly believe my most cherished ideas about God are supported by the Bible (what Christian says otherwise?), I must admit they did not originate there. On the contrary, most of these ideas were formed during that difficult time I described to you, when I was suddenly disillusioned by the suffering and injustice I discovered in the inner-city—I suddenly did not trust the Bible at all. At that point, for the first time, I realized that people’s lives don’t depend on whether or not they believe in God, but rather on what kind of God they believe in. I also realized, for better or worse, that the only evidence I could rely on was that which I saw for myself. What I saw then, and still see now, is a world filled with dazzling goodness and horrific evil, love and hate, beauty and ugliness, life and death. In the face of such clear dualities, it seemed to me then, and still seems to me now, that there are but a handful of spiritual possibilities:

* There are no spiritual forces. The material universe is all. Our lives bear no larger meaning, and those who hope for more hope in vain. In this case, considering that nine- year-old rape victim, I despair.

* There is only one spiritual force at work in the universe, encompassing both good and evil. This world is precisely as this force wills it to be, and everything—including the rapes of children— happens according to its plan. In this case, again, I despair.

* There are two diametrically opposing spiritual forces at work in the universe, one entirely good and loving and the other entirely evil. Satan (or whatever one chooses to call that evil force) is most powerful and therefore will utterly triumph in the end. The suffering of that poor little girl is but a foretaste of the complete suffering that is to come for us all. In this case, of course, I despair.

* There are two opposing spiritual forces at work in the universe, one entirely good and loving and the other entirely evil. God (or whatever one chooses to call that good and loving force) is most powerful and therefore will utterly triumph in the end. The suffering of that poor little girl—evil’s doing—will somehow be redeemed, and she herself will be healed as part of the complete redemption and absolute healing that is

to come for all of us. In this case—and in this case alone—I rejoice and gladly pledge my allegiance to this good and loving God.

I cannot prove or disprove any of these possibilities, of course, based on the evidence of my experience. What I know with certainty, however, is the one that makes me want to go on living, the one I choose for my own sake, the one I deem worthy of my allegiance. I may be wrong in this matter, but I am not in doubt. If indeed faith is being sure of what we hope for, then truly I am a man of faith, for I absolutely know what I hope to be true: that God is completely good, entirely loving, and perfectly forgiving, that God is doing everything possible to overcome evil (which is evidently a long and difficult task), and that God will utterly triumph in the end, despite any and all indications to the contrary.

This is my first article of faith. I required no Bible to determine it, and—honestly—I will either interpret away or ignore altogether any Bible verse that suggests otherwise. This first article of faith was the starting point of my journey back to Jesus, and it remains the foundation of my faith. I came to trust the Bible again, of course, but only because it so clearly bears witness to the God of love I had already chosen to believe in. I especially follow the teachings of Jesus because those teachings—and his life, death, and resurrection—seem to me the best expression of the ultimate truth of God, which we Christians call grace. Indeed, these days I trust Jesus even when I don’t understand him, because I have become so convinced that he knows what he’s talking about, that he is who he says he is, and that he alone fully grasps that which I can only hope is true. Unfortunately for me, God may be very different from what I hope, in which case I may be in big trouble come Judgment Day. Perhaps, as many believe, the truth is that God created and predestined some people for salvation and others for damnation, according to God’s will. Perhaps such caprice only seems unloving to us because we don’t understand. Perhaps, as many believe, all who die without confessing Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior go to Hell to suffer forever. Most important of all, perhaps God’s sovereignty is such that although God could indeed prevent little girls from being raped, God is no less just or merciful when they are raped, and those children and we who love them should uncritically give God our thanks and praise in any case. My response is simple: I refuse to believe any of that. For me to do otherwise would be to despair. Some might say I would be wise to swallow my misgivings about such stuff, remain orthodox, and thereby secure my place with God in eternity. But that is precisely my point: If those things are true, then God might as well send me to Hell. For better or worse, I simply am not interested in any God but a completely good, entirely loving, and perfectly forgiving One who is powerful enough to utterly triumph over evil. Such a God may not exist, but I will die seeking such a God, and I will pledge my allegiance to no other possibility because, quite frankly, anything less is not worthy of my worship. Please, don’t get me wrong. I am well aware that I don’t get to decide who God is. What I do get to decide, however, is to whom I pledge my allegiance. I am a free agent, after all, and I have standards for my God, the first of which is this: I will not worship any God who is not at least as compassionate as I am. If Mahatma Gandhi and my young friend who got gang-raped are going to Hell because they failed to believe the right stuff, then I suppose I am too, for the same reason. John Calvin—or Jerry Falwell for that matter—may well be right after all, but if they are I would rather cling to my glorious hope than accept their bitter truth just to save my own skin. You can figure out the rest. I don’t hate God because I don’t believe God is fully in control of this world yet. Heck, God is not fully in control of me yet, even when I want God to be—so how could I possibly believe that God is making all the bad stuff happen out there in the streets? I don’t hate God because I believe God is always doing the best God can within the limits of human freedom, which even God cannot escape.

On that last point, consider for a moment the essential relationship between human freedom and love, and then consider the essential identity between love and God. If God is love and made us for love in God’s image, then God had no choice but to make us free, to leave us free, and to win us over to his Kingdom as free agents (which, evidently, is a long and difficult task). So God did, I believe, and so God will. I don’t hate God because, although I suppose God knows everything that can be known at any given point in time, I don’t suppose God knows or controls everything that is going to happen. I also don’t hate God because in more than 20 years on the street, I have seen too much of evil (and too much of my own, moving-in-the-right-direction- but-still-pretty-doggone-sinful nature). I don’t hate God because it seems to me that this world is a battleground between good and evil, not a puppet show with just one person pulling all the strings. I don’t hate God because the God I have chosen to believe in isn’t hateable, and because I refuse to believe in the kind of God that is. Now here is the good news: I may be entirely wrong, but even in my darkest hours, my God of love hasn’t stopped speaking to me. On the contrary, I hear God’s voice in places I never did before, always saying the same things, one way or another: I am with you. I’m sorry about all the pain. It hurts me, too, especially when my little ones suffer. I have always loved you, and I always will. Do the best you can, but don’t worry. Everything will be all right in the end. Trust me. And I do. And I hope you will, too, sooner than later.

Your friend,

Bart

Of course, to believe in God the way I do is to change all the rules of ministry—especially of youth ministry. I still do my best to convince young people to accept Jesus as their personal Lord and Savior, but not because I’m afraid God will damn them to Hell if they don’t. On the contrary, I want the kids I love to follow Jesus because I genuinely believe following Jesus is the best kind of life. Eternity aside, I want them to be transformed by the Gospel right here and right now, for their sakes and for the sakes of all the lost and broken people out there who need them to start living as Jesus’ disciples. After all, the sooner we all start following Jesus by feeding the poor and freeing the oppressed, the sooner God’s will shall be done on earth as it is in Heaven. Most of all, however, I evangelize people because, having discovered that they are the beloved children of my beloved God, I don’t want them to suffer one minute longer than they have to without knowing that most wonderful fact of life And I stay in the inner city, in spite of all the suffering and injustice I see here every day, because I can. No longer do I blame God for what is beyond his control or hate God for so much pain his little ones endure. Even in the midst of such ugliness, I can stay here because I am full of faith. I may not be sure of what I know anymore, but I am absolutely certain of what I hope for, and most of the time I manage to live in that direction. I stay here for one more reason, of course: In places like this, nobody asks you to leave early because you can’t find the limits of God’s grace.

And to think...when Bart came to my college (Huntington College), I almost joined his urban outreach program which would have started that summer.

Sad to see how unorthodox he is...I'm glad I didn't join. That summer I was introduced to Reformed theology and that Fall I met my wife.

Dear Brett,

I thought I had said this above, but let me say it again: our Lord's rule is "by their fruit ye shall know them." Sitting on the Democratic National Party's Platform Committee is fruit; membership on a committee that issues a document calling for the unhindered slaughter of millions of children is fruit; speaking afterward as if one's membership on that committee was a victory for the Kingdom of God is fruit; appearing publicly with someone who claims to be a Christian and yet promotes sodomite marriage is fruit; having a wife, under your own authority let alone God's, who publicly promotes sodomite marriage while claiming to be a Christian is fruit; mocking the call of godly Christians for you to rebuke and silence your wife's soul-destroying commitment to sodomite marriage, claiming that you don't do so because you hold to egalitarian marriage and respect your wife is fruit; calling into question the power of the Holy Spirit to remove sodomite temptations from believers is fruit; having an adult son who publicly denies the Living God's attributes without apology or shame is fruit.

And we've only just begun...

Now, sir; you have arrived at an age where you should be able to predict the weather and know your own times. Do you think this fruit should tell us anything about Professor Campolo? Or would you prefer Christians all to toss out discernment and vote a straight Republican ticket in a month and a half?

Brett, carry the burden yourself. Instead of arguing with straw men, you tell us what the fruit of Tony Campolo's life would lead you to warn your sons and daughters about concerning this most popular of all evangelical speakers on college campuses? Anything? Anything at all? Any slight, slight, thing?

Only that he might have bad breath after he drinks coffee? Really? That's all?

In the love of Christ,

Jesus a liberal or conservative?

What Jesus says to both liberals and conservatives; to Republicans and Democrats; to all of us is,"Repent, sinner, and believe in Me."

>Then again, I’m not sure what this has to do with Campolo as I would think you could explain your view on him without bringing my political views into the discussion.

I was joking.

>Honestly Pastor, I have not argued with you in this thread at all.

Please call me Tim. I have not faulted you with arguing with anyone; rather, I've challenged you to come to your own conclusions based on the fruit of Tony Campolo's life, and share them with your readers.

>Rather, I was asking for clarification on why a child’s belief indicates salvation.

Bret: No one has said this. NO ONE!

Someone asking "Would Jesus be a Democrat or a Republican?" in this context is like somebody getting beaten in a fight and shouting, "Look over there! A big bird!"

Same thing with asking whether Campolo is a brother. So what if he's a brother? Hymenaueus and Alexander were probably brothers, too. They all need to be put out of the church.