I'll call you a Christian if you'll call me an intellectual

(David) There's the joke about insecure Evangelical scholars who promise their liberal counterparts, "I'll call you a Christian if you call me an intellectual."

I can't quite figure out the quid pro quo between Mark Noll, Wayne Grudem and the Latter Day Saints, but it looks like the LDS is on the receiving end of a similar bargain.

Take, for instance, this priceless comparison between Mormon belief in Joseph Smith and the Evangelical doctrine of divine inspiration by Mark Noll in a Reuters story on Mitt Romney:

"Some Southern Baptists will live near Mormon communities functioning at their best, where they will see in practice the kind of family-oriented, sober, diligent, and disciplined lives that Southern Baptists preach but do not always display," said Mark Noll of the University of Notre Dame. "...Southern Baptists maintain a vigorous doctrine of divine revelation. That latter belief is not too far from the Mormon belief that God spoke to and through Joseph Smith," he said.
              http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20071121/lf_nm/usa_politics_romney_dc

"Not too far?" Like, say, the increasing distance between Noll himself and Evangelical belief?

Or, in perhaps an equally amazing statement, this endorsement of Mitt Romney by Wayne Grudem, "co-founder and past president of the Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood":

As an evangelical professor of Bible and theology, I have decided to support Mitt Romney for President (even though he is a Mormon) for two old-fashioned reasons: First, he is the best-qualified candidate, and second, he holds moral and political values consistent with those in the Bible.

Best-qualified: The best predictor of future performance is a person’s past track record. Romney’s record is stellar:

Intellectual ability: He was in the top 5 percent of his class at Harvard Business School and simultaneously in the top 1/3 of his class at Harvard Law School. He is incredibly intelligent.

Governor of Massachusetts: He won the governor’s race as a Republican in Massachusetts and restored financial discipline to the state. He was a successful governor of a liberal state. This also means he has a good shot at winning some New England states away from the Democrats in the general election.

Business success: He was hired by Bain & Company, one of the elite business consulting firms in the country, and was so successful that he became a partner. He then founded Bain Capital and made it a highly successful investment company. He built a personal fortune of around $200,000,000 in the process, an amazing business achievement. He knows how to run businesses, and what makes them profitable.

Were Wayne and Mitt roommates--or perhaps Hasty Pudding members together--at Harvard? 

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Comments

Aren't the two comments rather different? Noll seems to be doing what you are saying, which is exceedingly odd. Grudem seems to be forming a pragmatic judgement rather than a theological one. A bit like Luther's old saying that it was better to be governed by a wise Turk than a foolish Christian.

"he holds moral and political values consistent with those in the Bible." Like profiting from the sale of pornography in countless hotel rooms while he was on the board of Marriott? Yeah, I get it now. What was that saying about supping with the Devil and using a very long spoon? Kamilla

David, I think David Gray is correct: Noll and Grudem appear to be doing two very different things. BTW - The President of Fuller Seminary, Richard Mouw, seems to be doing the same thing that Mark Noll is doing with respect to the LDS. David

If Mormon "revelation" via Joseph Smith is like biblical revelation, then the same is surely true of Islamic "revelation" via Quran and Sunna. Never mind that Mormon "revelation" and Islamic "revelation" are at key points radically opposed to the biblical Word. Revelation must mean to these folks "any message that the hearer considers authoritative." It's not difficult to identify the real god calling the shots in these transactions. It is the one on the supposedly receiving end.

Civic righteousness is something reprobates are capable of performing. People who admire Mormonism based on their civic righteousness (putative, by the way, because some folks say some strange things reside in Mormon land when you pull curtains back a little), but, as I was saying, people who admire Mormonism for their civic righteousness remind me of the observation that Mussolini made the trains run on time...

Dear Davids, Well yes and no. In one sense it's a very different thing. Mark Noll is comparing views of inspiration without endorsing, Wayne is endorsing. But Wayne is also telling us to vote for Mitt Romney because "he holds moral and political values consistent with those in the Bible." This is no different than calling Sharia Islam a form of morality consistent with that of the Bible. We don't have to consider Mormonism's actual moral teaching and practice over the years to find this an utterly untrue statement that mingles Christian holiness with Mormon morality. In fact, though Luther might or might not vote for Romney, he'd never call his legalistic Mormon morality consistent with that of Scripture. David Bayly

Forgive me, but anyone who can write this as evidence of the practical, worldly common-sense, (ideally sanctified common-sense) that we would always like to see in a political leader is not somebody whose opinion is worth much on this subject: "Intellectual ability: He was in the top 5 percent of his class at Harvard Business School and simultaneously in the top 1/3 of his class at Harvard Law School. He is incredibly intelligent."

Uh, yeah, Robert; breathtaking in its scope, isn't it?

It could only be written by a rather naive academic.

The last time I read through Proverbs, the realization dawned on me that the entire book teaches naivete to be a sin.

I'd one-up you, but I think you left the rails with that last one...

Evangelicalism might best be understood as a movememnt to kill discernment.

Tim, Ow! Kamilla

I thought you were defending Grudem, now I'm not sure... I may not have needed to one-up you...

Robert, while we're speaking (if you don't mind): What's your IQ? Your SAT score? How many you running Sunday mornings? What's your budget? Do you have any daughters who are attorneys or physicians? Have you published any books? If so, what kind of advance do you get? You do have a doctorate, don't you? And it's one of the real ones, not some cheap D.Min. or Ed.D., I hope. We have minimal standards for those who comment, you know, and your comments have begun to lead us to suspect that you're not quite the caliber of contributor normally seen here.

I don't think you caught the meaning of my initial post. Carry on.

This is why you're not Green Baggins!!!

Sorry, Robert; having fun on a blog never seems to work. But for the record, I'm quite certain I have understood (and agreed with) everything you've written.

>"Sorry, Robert; having fun on a blog never seems to work. But for the record, I'm quite certain I have understood (and agreed with) everything you've written." This affirms my good opinion of you. Seeing that I may have recently been banned from GreenBaggins (may have been, there's still hope) it's good to know I have an adherent over here. Thank you.

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