Princeton Presbtyerian Samuel Miller on baptismal efficacy and common objections to infant baptism...

(Actually posted by Tim.)

Here Princeton Seminary professor Samuel Miller presents the presbyterian understanding of the efficacy of baptism:

But it may be asked, what kind or degree of efficacy do Presbyterians consider as connected with baptism? Do they suppose that there is any beneficial influence, physical or moral, in all cases, connected with the due administration of this sacrament? I answer, none at all. They suppose that the washing with water in this ordinance is an emblem and a sign of precious benefits; that it holds forth certain great truths, which are the glory of the Christian covenant, and the joy of the Christian's heart; that it is a seal affixed by God to his covenant with his people, whereby he certified his purposes of grace, and pledges his blessing to all who receive it with a living faith; nay, that it is the seal of valuable outward privileges, even to those who are not then, or at any other time, "born of the Spirit;" that, as a solemn rite appointed by Christ, it is adapted to make a solemn impression on the serious mind; but that when it is administered to the persons, or the offspring of those who are entirely destitute of faith, there is no pledge or certainty that it will be accompanied with any blessing. They receive the water, but not the Spirit. They are engrafted into the visible church, but not into the spiritual body of Christ, and are, after before, like Simon the Sorcerer, "in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity" (Acts 8:23).

Samuel Miller, from his Note B, Baptismal Regeneration found as an appendix to his excellent work, Infant Baptism Scriptural and Reasonable. Note that both links take you to Miller's actual text online, and not simply information about his work.

Of particular value to our baptist friends would be the second part of Miller's work, titled Infant Baptism: Objections Answered. Here's a teaser...

5. A fifth objection continually made by our Baptist brethren is, that infants are not capable of those spiritual acts or exercises which the New Testament requires in order to a proper reception of the ordinance of baptism. Thus the language of the New Testament on various occasions is, "Repent, and be baptized. Believe, and be baptized. If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest be baptized. They that gladly received the word were baptized. Many of the Corinthians, having believed, were baptized" (Acts 2:38; 2:41; 8:37; 18:8). In short, say our Baptist brethren, as baptism is acknowledged on all hands to be a "seal of the righteousness of faith" (Rom. 4:11); and as infants are altogether incapable of exercising faith: it is, of course, not proper to baptize them.  

 

In answer to this objection, my first remark is, that all those exhortations to faith and repentance, as prerequisites to baptism, which we find in the New Testament, are addressed to adult persons. And when we are called to instruct adult persons, who have never been baptized, we always address them precisely in the same way in which the apostles did. We exhort them to repent and believe, and we say, just as Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest" be baptized. But this does not touch the question respecting the infant seed of believers. It only shows that when adults are baptized, such a qualification is to be urged, and such a profession required. And in this, all Pædobaptists unanimously agree.  

 

But still our Baptist brethren, unsatisfied with this answer, insist that, as infants are not capable of exercising faith, as they are not capable of acting either intelligently or voluntarily in the case at all, they cannot be considered as the proper recipients of an ordinance which is represented as a "seal of the righteousness of faith." This objection is urged with unceasing confidence, and not seldom accompanied with a sneer or even ridicule, at the idea of applying a covenant seal to those who are incapable of either understanding, or giving their consent, to the transaction. It is really, my friends, enough to make one shudder to think how often, and how unceremoniously language of this kind is employed by those who acknowledge that infants of eight days old, were once, and that by express divine appointment, made the subjects of circumcision. Now circumcision is expressly said by the apostle to be a "seal of the righteousness of faith" (Rom. 4:11), as well as baptism. But were children of eight days old then capable of exercising faith, when they were circumcised, more than they are now when they are baptized? Surely the objection before us is as valid in the one case as in the other. And, whether our Baptist brethren perceive it or not, all the charges of "absurdity" and "impiety" which they are so ready to heap on infant baptism, are just as applicable to infant circumcision as to infant baptism. Are they, then, willing to say that the application of a "seal of the righteousness of faith" to unconscious infants, of eight days old, who, of course, could not exercise faith, was, under the old economy, preposterous and absurd? Are they prepared thus to "charge God foolishly?" (Job 1:22). Yet they must do it, if they would be consistent. They cannot escape from the shocking alternative. Every harsh and contemptuous epithet which they apply to infant baptism, must, if they would adhere to the principles which they lay down, be applied to infant circumcision. But that which unavoidably leads to such a consequence cannot be warranted by the word of God.  

 

After all, the whole weight of the objection, in this case, is founded on an entire forgetfulness of the main principle of the pædobaptist system. It is forgotten that in every case of infant baptism, faith is required, and, if the parents be sincere, is actually exercised. But it is required of the parents, not of the children. So that, if the parent really presents his child in faith, the spirit of the ordinance is entirely met and answered. It was this principle which gave meaning and legitimacy to the administration of the corresponding rite under the old dispensation. It was because the parents were visibly within the bond of the covenant, that their children were entitled to the same blessed privilege. The same principle precisely applies under the New Testament economy. Nor does it impair the force of this consideration to allege, that parents, it is feared, too often present their children, in this solemn ordinance, without genuine faith. It is, indeed, probable that this is often lamentably the fact. But so it was, we cannot doubt, with respect to the corresponding ordinance, under the old dispensation. Yet their circumcision was neither invalidated, nor rendered unmeaning, by this want of sincerity on the part of the parent. It was sufficient for the visible administration that faith was visibly professed. When our Baptist brethren administer the ordinance of baptism to one who professes to repent and believe, but who is not sincere in this profession, they do not consider his want of faith as divesting the ordinance of either its warrant or its meaning. The administration may be regular and scriptural, while the recipient is criminal, and receives no spiritual benefit. It is, in every case, the profession of faith which gives the right, in the eye of the church, to the external ordinance. The want of sincerity in this profession, while it deeply inculpates the hypocritical individual, affects not either the nature or the warrant of the administration.  

 

6. Again; it is objected, that baptism can do infants no good. "Where," say our Baptist brethren, "is the benefit of it? What good can a little 'sprinkling with water' do a helpless, unconscious babe?" To this objection I might reply, by asking in my turn, "What good did circumcision do a Jewish child, helpless and unconscious, at eight days old? To ask the question is almost impious, because it implies an impeachment of infinite wisdom.[1]  

 

God appointed that ordinance to be administered to infants. And accordingly, when the apostle asked, in the spirit of some modern cavillers, "What profit is there of circumcision?" He replies, much, every way (Rom. 3:1-2). In like manner, when it is  asked, "What profit is there in baptizing our infant children?" I answer, Much, every way. Baptism is a sign of many important truths, and a seal of many important covenant blessings.  

 

Is there no advantage in attending on an ordinance which holds up to our view, in the most impressive symbolical language, several of those fundamental doctrines of the gospel which are of the deepest interest to us and our offspring; such as our fallen, guilty, and polluted state by nature, and the method appointed by infinite wisdom and love for our recovery, by the atoning blood, and cleansing Spirit of the Saviour? Is there no advantage in solemnly dedicating our children to God by an appropriate rite, of his own appointment? Is there no advantage in formally binding ourselves, by covenant engagements, to bring up our offspring "in the nurture and admonition of the Lord?" (Eph. 6:4). Is there no advantage in publicly ratifying the connection of our children, as well as ourselves, with the visible church, and as it were binding them to an alliance with the God of their fathers? Is there nothing either comforting or useful in solemnly recognizing as our own that covenant promise, "I will establish my covenant between me and thee, and thy seed after thee ... to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee?" (Gen. 17:7).Is it a step of no value to our children themselves, to be brought, by a divinely appointed ordinance, into the bosom, and to the notice, the maternal attentions, and the prayers of the church, "the mother of us all?" (Gal. 4:26). And is it of no advantage to the parents, in educating their children, to be able to remind them, from time to time, that they have been symbolically sanctified, or set apart, by the seal of Jehovah's covenant, and to plead with them by the solemn vows which they have made on their behalf?  

 

Verily, my dear friends, those who refuse or neglect the baptism of their children, not only sin against Christ by disobeying his solemn command; but they also deprive both themselves and their children of great benefits. They may imagine that, as it is a disputed point, it may be a matter of indifference, whether their children receive this ordinance in their infancy, or grow up unbaptized. But is not this attempting to be wiser than God? I do not profess to know all the advantages attendant or consequent on the administration of this significant and divinely appointed rite; but one thing I know, and that is, that Christ has appointed it as a sign of precious truths, and a seal of rich blessings to his covenant people, and their infant offspring; and I have no doubt that, in a multitude of cases, the baptized children, presented by professing parents who had no true faith, but who, by this act, brought their children within the care, the watch, and the privileges of the church, have been instrumental in conferring upon their offspring rich benefits, while they themselves went down to everlasting burnings. If I mistake not I have seen many cases, in which as far as the eye of man could go, the truth of this remark has been signally exemplified.  

 

Let it not be said that such a solemn dedication of a child to God is usurping the rights of the child to judge and act for himself, when he comes to years of discretion; and that it is inconsistent with the privilege of every rational being to free inquiry, and free agency. This objection is founded on an infidel spirit. It is equally opposed to the religious education of children; and, if followed out, would militate against all those restraints, and that instruction which the word of God enjoins on parents. Nay, if the principle of this objection be correct, it is wrong to preoccupy the minds of our children with an abhorrence of lying, theft, drunkenness, malice, and murder; lest, forsooth, we should fill them with such prejudices as would be unfriendly to free inquiry.  

 

The truth is, one great purpose for which the church was instituted, is to watch over and train up children in the knowledge and fear of God, and thus, to "prepare a seed to serve him, who should be accounted to the Lord for a generation." And I will venture to say, that that system of religion which does not embrace children in its ecclesiastical provisions, and in its covenant engagements, is most materially defective.  

 

Infants may not receive any apparent benefit from baptism, at the moment in which the ordinance is administered; although a gracious God may, even then, accompany the outward emblem with the blessing which it represents, even "the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5).This, indeed, may not be, and most commonly, so far as we can judge, is not the case. But still the benefits of this ordinance, when faithfully applied by ministers, and faithfully received by parents, are abundant ­ nay, great and important every way. When children are baptized, they are thereby recognized as belonging to the visible church of God. They are, as it were, solemnly entered as scholars or disciples in the school of Christ. They are brought into a situation in which they not only may be trained up for God, but in which their parents are bound so to train them up; and the church is bound to see that they be so trained, as that the Lord's claim to them shall ever be recognized and maintained. In a word, by baptism, when the administrators and recipients are both faithful to their respective trusts, children are brought into a situation in which all the means of grace; all the privileges pertaining to Christ's covenanted family; in a word, all that is comprehended under the broad and precious import of the term Christian education, is secured to them in the most ample manner. Let parents think of this, when they come to present their children in this holy ordinance. And let children lay all this to heart, when they come to years in which they are capable of remembering and realizing their solemn responsibility.  

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Comments

Pastor Bayly,

Thanks for that excellent material.

It is also interesting to note in the Note E of the material that Dr Lightfoot of the Westminster Assembly seemed to assume mandatory use of bread and wine in the Lord's Supper.

Aaaarghhhh! Now I suppose the argument will be rejoined...

I referred to Note B, not E, you rascal.

>I referred to Note B, not E, you rascal.

Well I did read Note B first... :)

I've read that booklet and I have found Miller, personally, to be one of the best teachers on this subject I have read. His teaching on the continuity of the covenant community is terrific. Nothing like a good olive tree....

In fact, I have not read anything from Miller I have not come away from without being edified.

I agree, Jeff. His work, “The Utility and Importance of Creeds and Confessions”, is a wonderful antidote to the liberal experiential and emotive community masquerading today under the title "evangelical,” and it may be downloaded and read here, at no cost:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/DI_ch2.htm

Also quite pastoral and wise, and blissfully short, are the following works by Miller, freely available at these links:

Adherence to Our Doctrinal Standards:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/DI_ch3.htm

The Guilt, Folly, and Sources of Suicide:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/Suicides.htm

The Duty, the Benefit, and the Proper Methods of Religious Fasting:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/Fastings.htm

The Ruling Elder:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/RulElder.htm

An Able and Faithful Ministry:

http://www.swrb.com/newslett/actualNLs/AbleFait.htm

Does anyone know where I can find a hard copy of "Infant Baptism Scriptural and Reasonable"? I have a serious aversion to reading books in electronic copy. Thanks.

Dear Mark,

What I typically do is cut and paste the electronic text into Word, clean it up a bit and then print it out. If you then take it to a heavy duty stapler or a ring binding machine, you will have something almost as good as a paperback, usually for fairly low cost.

David Bayly

Mark;

"Infant Baptism, Scriptural and Reasonable" can be found in paperback copy at www.monergism.com. It is in their bookstore section.

However, as David says you can also download the free version at various sites, including http://www.apuritansmind.com/

I have found Miller to be the condensed version of Charles and AA Hodge and the abridged version of Warfield....

Samuel Miller: "But still our Baptist brethren, unsatisfied with this answer, insist that, as infants are not capable of exercising faith, as they are not capable of acting either intelligently or voluntarily in the case at all, they cannot be considered as the proper recipients of an ordinance which is represented as a "seal of the righteousness of faith." This objection is urged with unceasing confidence, and not seldom accompanied with a sneer or even ridicule, at the idea of applying a covenant seal to those who are incapable of either understanding, or giving their consent, to the transaction. It is really, my friends, enough to make one shudder to think how often, and how unceremoniously language of this kind is employed by those who acknowledge that infants of eight days old, were once, and that by express divine appointment, made the subjects of circumcision. Now circumcision is expressly said by the apostle to be a "seal of the righteousness of faith" (Rom. 4:11), as well as baptism. But were children of eight days old then capable of exercising faith, when they were circumcised, more than they are now when they are baptized? Surely the objection before us is as valid in the one case as in the other. And, whether our Baptist brethren perceive it or not, all the charges of "absurdity" and "impiety" which they are so ready to heap on infant baptism, are just as applicable to infant circumcision as to infant baptism. Are they, then, willing to say that the application of a "seal of the righteousness of faith" to unconscious infants, of eight days old, who, of course, could not exercise faith, was, under the old economy, preposterous and absurd?"

Well, here goes.

First, I have no doubt that Baptists often respond to paedobaptists with a "sneer and ridicule." But among paedobaptists today, "Baptistic" is almost a cuss word, often paired with words like "idiotic" or "unsophisticated" or "naive." Believe it or not, there are Baptists who have more than one tooth in their heads and who can use grammar properly. But even if there weren't, I would still throw in my lot with "uneducated and untrained men" who had been with Jesus--whether Baptist or Presbyterian.

But that isn't my main point. I am concerned with Miller's use of Romans 4:11. He says, "Now circumcision is expressly said by the apostle to be a 'seal of the righteousness of faith' (Rom. 4:11), as well as baptism. But were children of eight days old then capable of exercising faith, when they were circumcised, more than they are now when they are baptized?"

The problem is that Romans 4:11 is specifically speaking of Abraham. The point is that Abraham was justified by faith, apart from works of the law. Against the argument that circumcision had anything to do with Abraham's right standing before God, the Scripture makes it clear that Abraham was circumcised after he believed.

The passage reads in context like this:

9 Is this blessing then on the circumcised, or on the uncircumcised also? For we say, “FAITH WAS CREDITED TO ABRAHAM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.”

10 How then was it credited? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised;

11 and he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them,

12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also follow in the steps of the faith of our father Abraham which he had while uncircumcised.

13 For the promise to Abraham or to his descendants that he would be heir of the world was not through the Law, but through the righteousness of faith.

So, to apply what verse 11 says to circumcision in general is wrong. God is making a particular point from the life of Abraham: circumcision has nothing to do with justification. Justification comes by faith alone. The proof? Abraham was justified before he was circumcised. In Abraham's case, circumcision was "a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while uncircumcised, so that he might be the father of all who believe without being circumcised, that righteousness might be credited to them."

Miller misuses this passage to argue for infant baptism.

Dear Stephen,

Actually, brother, you couldn't be more wrong.

First, the passage clearly says that the sign of circumcision was given to Abraham as a seal of the righteousness he had by faith before he was circumcised. But, while agreeing with this, you insist that the sign loses its meaning for his children. This is ludicrous. Where do you find the Bible teaching that circumcision meant one thing for Abraham and another for his children? I urge you to find even one passage that remotely suggests this....

Honestly, you would make as good an argument by denying that children were circumcised on the eighth day.

Second, the passage goes on to say quite clearly that the promise is to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world through the righteousness that is of faith. The passage is treating Abraham and his children together. You suggest it separates them and deals either with them distinctly or only with Abraham and not his children. But only a cursory reading shows that the covenant, its sign and its reward are for both Abraham and his children who live by faith.

Stephen, I fear you haven't thought enough about this passage to be writing on it. You suggest that circumcision is introduced here purely in an ancillary, supporting role to the argument about justification. And then you chop that supporting role off at the knees and don't permit what is at the very least an obvious extension of that ancillary role. This is an exceedingly low view of Scripture. To suggest that an obvious and implicit corollary of a primary argument can't be allowed is a sign of a desperate position.

Jesus argues that the resurrection is proven by God saying, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." You won't let something far more obvious into your mind because it conflicts with a view you hold dear.

Love in Christ,

David Bayly

A joke from the days of the Old West (American wild west, that is) says that Baptists are Methodists who wear shoes, and Presbytrians are Baptists who can read.

Those who construe the efficacy of baptism more along Lutheran lines would probably alter this merriment with respect to this thread by saying that Presbyterians are Baptists who sprinkle their children.

>Those who construe the efficacy of baptism more along Lutheran lines would probably alter this merriment with respect to this thread by saying that Presbyterians are Baptists who sprinkle their children.

True more often than it should be.

With an apology to my dear brother, Stephen, I hesitated over Miller’s “sneer and ridicule” comment. Please don’t be offended. You’re absolutely right to point out that it was “unschooled, ordinary men” Jesus built His Church upon, and for this we all, I trust, praise God.

This text is one more place sacramentalism is denied by the Word of God, and hence one more reason why I’m not Lutheran, Anglican, or Roman Catholic, but Presbyterian. This is not to say all those aligned with those other communions are sacramentalist, nor that Presbyterians can’t fall into this abyss that has swallowed so very many souls through the centuries. Yet, at their historic best, Presbyterians are unabashed in acknowledging and warning against these dangers.

Some think a simple denial of ex opere operato is proof positive that one is not a sacramentalist. It’s often these same men who think those of us who keep on guard against this error and fence the font with biblical warnings are “Baptists who sprinkle their children.”

Well guys, I love everybody, but were I to live in a world where my only options were between those who believe sacramentalism is a chronic danger within the Protestant community that must be guarded against and those who think the appearance of such danger is an anomaly and guarding against it proves one is really, deep down, a stupid memorial-only Baptist, I’ll wear the appellation with pride. You know, something about Jacob and Easau and circumcised hearts.

But then, neither Scripture nor church history force me to make that choice. So David and I stand under Scripture with Calvin and Knox and the Westminster Divines…

Everyone here seems to agree that "ex opere operato" is to be rejected. As a Catholic, I am curious how you all would define the term and what in particular about that definition makes this such a terrible concept.

Please look here, John, for an accurate summary of Protestants' concerns, historically, put well in Elwell's "Dictionary of Theology":

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txn/exopere.htm

Yes, some would argue this summary is not nuanced enough, and that the Roman Catholic doctrine of ex opere operato is actually, strictly speaking, only a tonic against Donatism. So happily, we Protestants and you Roman Catholics are not far apart at al on this matter.

I must disagree. Churches that have a huge disparity between various doctrinal statements, and an even more huge disparity between the normal understanding and practice of the doctrine in a local parish and what the kindest and gentlest expression of that doctrine is within that communion, must understand that those criticizing her normal practice and understanding are not being unfair in their criticism.

In connection with this, why am I not surprised Federal Vision proponent, Dr. Joel Garver, is quite solicitous of reformed Protestants coming to understand that Roman Catholic official doctrine in some places where it addresses ex opere operato is actually quite similar to what those of us who hold to the biblical tradition of the Westminster Standards believe?

http://www.joelgarver.com/writ/sacr/exopere.htm

As a man called to shepherd God's flock, men whose academy-speak seems oblivious to the dangers the doctrines they're handling pose to real immortal souls do grieve me. In this essay at least, it appears all Dr. Garver can bring himself to do is admit that there may have been reason for Calvin and the other reformers to speak up on this issue in their own time.

Really.

Again I ask: Is memorial-only-ism the sole danger of our time?

Let's all remember that a man is known not only by what he argues in favor of, but also what he opposes. And that Calvin and Luther and the Apostle Paul were always shepherds in what they wrote. No scholasticism with any of them.

Thank you for the links. They were most interesting. I think I now understand your usage of the term.

I still find the emphasis on gaurding against "ex opere operato" (understood in the Protestant sense) rather curious. Listening to the debate here sometimes strikes me as being akin to listening to a debate between astronomers who continually warn each other of the danger of appearing to teach that the earth is flat. After all, some people used to believe that it is. Didn't Columbus prove them all wrong back in the 15th century?

Of course, even in olden times, it was only uneducated people who were at risk of believing that the earth is flat. A round earth was an accepted scientific fact even in Aristotle's day. No one who's had a bit of geographical training since has doubted that the earth is round.

So guarding against ignorant misconceptions about the sacraments that may have been occupied the popular mind five centuries ago, appears to me to be oddly anachronistic. However, it is also possible that the original motivation for coining the term remains relevant here.

Thinking back on Calvin's assertion that "the sacraments derive their virtue from the word when it is preached intelligibly", one could conclude that it is a possible invitation to Donatism. Is a baptism legitimate if the minister is an egalitarian, feminist Presbyterian fond of delivering wishy-washy, doctrine-lite sermons? Or even a sound minister who's just having a bad day expressing his thoughts?

As for Joel Garver, is not the important matter whether what he wrote is true or not? Even if he writes in "academy-speak" (which is not exactly surprising for an academic philosopher), it is the content of his article that is of interest to me - not the mote in his eye.

In Christ,

John

Dear John,

I understand your thinking on this, as a Roman Catholic, and don't mind your comments at all. But I do believe you're wrong to think of ex opere operator as a dead danger. It's been very much alive in the places I've lived and the people I've worked with. Consider that ninety percent of Western Europeans have been baptized while, at most, five to ten percent of them are ever in worship.

But really, this discussion would have to be quite long to bridge the gap of understanding between us, I suspect, and although I appreciate your friendship, I'm not able to do so now.

For the record, it was the academic rather than pastoral emphasis that concerned me with Dr. Garver's piece, not his vocabulary. And his defense of Rome's doctrine of ex opere operato seemed to me to be out of touch with historic and contemporary Roman Catholicism, broadly (not narrowly) speaking. I understand your comments about this being only a mote in Dr. Garver's eye. I'd likely think the same if I were Roman Catholic. Please understand that I don't mean this in a condescending way, although I'm aware it likely appears that way.

Warmly,

Tim Bayly

David,

Responding to Stephen you say:

"First, the passage clearly says that the sign of circumcision was given to Abraham as a seal of the righteousness he had by faith before he was circumcised. But, while agreeing with this, you insist that the sign loses its meaning for his children. This is ludicrous."

But just earlier you had quoted Samuel Miller as saying:

"In answer to this objection, my first remark is, that all those exhortations to faith and repentance, as prerequisites to baptism, which we find in the New Testament, are addressed to adult persons. And when we are called to instruct adult persons, who have never been baptized, we always address them precisely in the same way in which the apostles did. We exhort them to repent and believe, and we say, just as Philip said, "If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest" be baptized. But this does not touch the question respecting the infant seed of believers. It only shows that when adults are baptized, such a qualification is to be urged, and such a profession required. "

What is the difference between what Stephen has done and Samuel Miller?

You then ask:

Where do you find the Bible teaching that circumcision meant one thing for Abraham and another for his children? I urge you to find even one passage that remotely suggests this....

I would start with Romans 9:6-8

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham obecause they are his offspring, but p “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but qthe children of the promise are counted as offspring.

If that be the case, then the circumcision that belonged to Abraham most definitely did not mean the same thing for those who were his descendants and yet did not share his faith.

Looking at Romans 4:11, the message is clear:

Circumcision was given to Abraham as a seal of the righteousness he had because of the faith that he had before he was circumcised. He was declared righteous before he was circumcised so that there would be no confusion about him being righteous because of his circumcision and not confusion as to whether or not someone who was not circumcised could also be counted as righteous and, thus, a child of Abraham.

The passage also tells us that Abraham is the father of all who believe, and who walk in the footsteps of the faith that he had before he was circumcised whether or not they have themselves been circumcised.

Finally, The offspring of Abraham are not his physical descendants but his spiritual descendants.

This passage says nothing about the purpose of circumcision for any other than Abraham. It signified his faith. What did it signify for his offspring? The passage speaks more to what it did not do or signify. You could be righteous without circumcision, thus circumcision was not a necessary act or a necessary sign to be considered a child of Abraham.

So what did it signify for his offspring? For that we need to go to Genesis 17.

First we are told that God's covenant will be with Abraham and his offspring and He will be their God. Paul informs us that Abraham's offspring are those who share his faith.

So why circumcise everyone? As a sign of the covenant between Abraham and God and between his offspring (I take this to mean spiritual offspring according to Paul) and God, every male (faith or no faith) among them would be circumcised (17:10). If they were not circumcised, they would be cut off from the rest of their people (the Jews) (17:14).

Romans 3:1-20 tells us that the circumcision of the Jews had value because they were entrusted with the oracles of God and that the fact that some among them were unfaithful did not nullify God's faithfulness. Instead, it only demonstrated God's righteousness. In the end, however, Jews were no better off than non-Jews when it comes to their righteousness before God- it all depends upon God's saving activity through Christ. Thus, non-Jews would condemn Jews one day, because true circumcision was not primarily a mark on the flesh, but a spiritual act of faith.

I take these to mean that the primary purpose of circumcision was to mark those who were part of the people through whom God would demonstrate his faithfulness to the promises made to Abraham and those who would share in his faith. It was not that they would share in the promises of Abraham, but that they would help advance God's redemptive program so that the promises could be fulfilled to those who share the faith. It was through this circumcised people that God conquered lands and transmitted His promises, etc.

It seems simple to see that circumcision had a different meaning for Abraham than it did for his offspring.

Just fumbling around with your wonderful search facility. A point I'd like to chip into this old post:

Samuel Miller says:

all those exhortations to faith and repentance, as prerequisites to baptism, which we find in the New Testament, are addressed to adult persons. And when we are called to instruct adult persons, who have never been baptized, we always address them precisely in the same way in which the apostles did. We exhort them to repent and believe, and... be baptized

I humbly submit that the dear man has stacked the deck with this wording. How about the following modification:

all those exhortations to faith and repentance, as prerequisites to baptism, which we find in the New Testament, are addressed to adult persons *who have not believed*. And when we are called to instruct adult persons, who *have not believed*, we *never* address them precisely in the same way in which the apostles did. We *don't* exhort them to repent and believe, and... be baptized

I like that better. Chuckle, chuckle.

On the one hand, paedobaptists do indeed speak to unconverted and unbaptised adults in precisely the same way the apostles did.

On the other hand, they speak to a certain class of unconverted adults in a manner we don't find the apostles speaking to unconverted adults... and so additional arguments are made (and weighed) for why they think the apostles would have spoken in this way to a then-not-existing class of unconverted adults (that is, unconverted adults who had already been baptised as babies). This makes me ask if paedobaptists would be opposed to baptising unrepentant adults today who had not been baptised as babies? That is, does the order repentance-then-baptism actually matter at all?

Also, what of Acts 2:41:

So those who received his word were baptised, and there were added that day about three thousand souls.

It naturally makes me want to ask why only those 'who received the word' were baptised? Did 3000 people have no infants among them? Or would this text be interpreted as it being a given that it included the infants?

I'm sure these questions must have been considered before somewhere...

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