The Vatican shames evangelicals...

While acknowledging the terrible denial of the Gospel at the heart of Roman Catholic dogma, true believers will rejoice to hear her prophetic voice continue to address the evils and hypocrisies of western culture.

These are strange days, when the professor of ethics at the Presbyterian Church in America's Covenant Seminary seeks to overturn laws banning sodomy, while the Vatican decries "parliaments of so-called civilized nations where laws contrary to the nature of the human being are being promulgated, such as the approval of marriage between people of the same sex ..."; when the Washington D.C. representative of the National Association of Evangelicals calls the world to a new moral awakening opposing carbon emissions, while the Pope calls for a new moral order in which abortion clinics are finally recognized as "slaughterhouses of human beings, …terrorism with a human face."

(Thanks, David.)

Tim Bayly

Tim serves Clearnote Church, Bloomington, Indiana. He and Mary Lee have five children and fifteen grandchildren.


Well, at least the Vatican got it partly right - with their theology of the body, though, they have no excuse for getting the rhetoric wrong.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - whatever happens between two people of the same sex is NOT marriage.


Hi Pastor Tim,

Thanks for the links. I can see I am going to have to start reading the good Mr. Sobran again.


Nice new blog domain. Yes, it appears that evan-jelly-fish are all hyped about global warming and insensitivities related to gender and nuancing of this and that but quiet on supporting marriage during this onslaught against it.

Sometimes surprises even come from feminists. I really enjoyed a talk on the Veritas Forum's website called "From Pro-Choice to Pro-Life: Unfolding a Journey" with Frederica Methewes-Green at UNCA Enjoy.

Hi Joe,

You're not implying Frederica is a feminist, are you? You can check out her essays, etc. at It's been years since she's been anything like feminist.


"While acknowledging the terrible denial of the Gospel at the heart of Roman Catholic dogma, true believers will rejoice to hear her prophetic voice continue to address the evils and hypocrisies of western culture."

Just wondering why you don't have a link proving the first part of this statement?

Kamilla, my main points were to affirm praxis when biblical without over-concern (yet remaining discerning) about some sources and to affirm the new Bayly blog domain and to share a university message that was apparently respectfully received from a source that apparently can get such a hearing even today.

I'll probably catch some flak for my direct reply to your question about the relatively conservative (on abortion) F.M.G., whose views have changed over the years but who gets a better hearing on campus than say Mrs. LaHaye or Mrs. Schafley.

There are several kinds of feminists from Marxist feminists to Gender to equality and some that even claim to be evangelical. A book could be written on my last sentence and I think it is pretty clear FMG is not a Marxist nor a gender feminist. Whew!

Depending on what (specifically) is discussed and how and where it is being grounded, I'd guess she could be one of the latter two or at least knows how to navigate the waters to get her main point made and steer clear of off subject landmines.

Perhaps she is neither of the latter categories. I'd be fine with that as I think the term, even adjectivally hyphenated has some baggage with it and again, how one attempts to define and ground it is extremely important. If it is civility and dignity and willingness to discuss ethics and theology (John 4) with even the most outcast of women, then clearly Jesus was more such by far than Jewish leaders in the 1st century. And he challenges attitudes and actions today as well. Grace and truth is so powerful and pure in Christ.

I think it intriguing that one of my favorite justices (Scalia) while intellectually top drawer, apparently had no influence on Justice Kennedy's views on abortion and maybe put him in a fortress mentality about his prior views but 'feminists for life' husband, Justice Roberts *may* have had legal IQ and emotional EQ influence that was helpful on the recent upholding of the ban on partial birth abortion.

This is perhaps another thread but I wanted to treat your inquiry with some context and do so hopefully helpful. I think my link to the online streaming talk on the Veritas Forum presentation on the public university campus by FMG was fabulous, powerful, in gender mixed company of adults, prophetic in its praxis and apologetic, and appropriate and exemplary, not to mention ahead of its time. Did you like it?


How about this:

Hearty laughs all around, David. But it's true.

Hi Joe,

I'm not able to listen to it right now because I have a lousy dial-up connection. Other than that, I'm not sure I followed your post. I provideed the link so those who are interested, perhaps including you, could check her views out for theselves.


"While acknowledging the terrible denial of the Gospel at the heart of Roman Catholic dogma..."

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