I rather hope otherwise....

This from the National Council of Churches' page honoring Metzger: http://www.ncccusa.org/news/2000GA/metzger.html **Bruce joined the Standard Bible Committee of the National Council of Churches in 1952, just as the "Revised Standard Version" was being completed, and took over as Chair of the committee in 1975, just as the revision that led to the publication of the "New Revised Standard Version" was getting started. For fifteen years he guided the work of the committee until the translation was complete, and then he saw it through the press almost single-handedly... Bruce worked tirelessly to make the RSV acceptable as the standard or as a recommended Bible for Roman Catholic and Orthodox Christians...** So the link David is pointing to is the fact that what Packer is so proud of, the "English Standard Version," is simply the text of the "Revised Standard Version" that he received from Metzger and other scholars. Packer and the other employees of Crossway revised the "Revised Standard Version," but since there was already a translation called the "New Revised Standard Version," they called it the "English Standard Version." Crossway was licensed to revise and reissue the "English Standard Version" by the National Council of Churches.

Absolutely, that's his magnum opus. The impact "Knowing God" had on me cannot be overstated. I'd also mention "Fundamentalism and the Word of God" and "Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God."

Dear David: And while we're at it, Packer's article, "The Reformed Doctrine of Sanctification," helped many to see the weaknesses of the Keswick teaching on sanctification. Many of my contemporaries who went to college in the mid 70s often gave testimonies that went something like this: I became a Christian in high school through Young Life (or Youth for Christ, etc.), but I really started growing (or I really came to understand my faith, etc.) when I read Packer's Knowing God.

It is indeed ironic that Packer is so proud of just re-issuing the old RSV. But when I think about it, I realize that he is right to be proud. The RSV is a good translation, and without Packer's efforts, it would have disappeared around after about 50 years. Due to Packer, it can keep going another 300 years, perhaps. Thus, although the original translators were necessary to Packer (as, indeed, the King James committees were to the RSV translators), their efforts would have been in vain without him, except for a 50-year period. Packer was necessary, if not sufficient, for the future history of the translation. He is, in a small way, like someone who kept the last copy of the Bible on Earth from being destroyed by pagans. Such a person's work is not very constructive-- it is just a matter of stopping something bad, rather than creating something good-- but it can be just as important as creative work.

Well yes, Jack; there's a "major change" with Isaiah 7:14. Smile. Actually, from the beginning the plan was to do a revision of the RSV. Crossway was brought into the picture to take on the task. It was all a response to the gender-neutral Bible controversy and I presented the proposal to Lane Dennis, the head of Crossway, at the Christian Booksellers Convention immediately following the Colorado Springs Guidelines meeting at Focus on the Family. There we all discussed the need for a new translation to supplant the NIV, concluding that a simple revision of the RSV was the best option. Since then, Crossway has tried to deny the ESV's origin in this controversy, but the E-mail correspondence between those of us at the Colorado Springs meeting at Focus on the Family is irrefutable. Of course, as Poythress, Packer, and the others got to work, the revisions grew beyond our original expectations. Also of course, Crossway had long dreamed of coming up with a Bible to compete with the other Bible publishers. But in the end, they took our suggestion and worked with a member of the Colorado Springs group to pick up the copyright on the RSV, turning it into the ESV. And them's the facts, brother.

Hi Pastor Dave, This is only my second post, but I do find it al very interesting. A Couple of quick queries for a total novice. Re your last post: What/Which is the sort of Web Pages, that you recommend to download good Electronic Christian theology Books....? (2) Also related query, are The sermons available at Christ The Word and Good Shepherd seem to be only in audio? Is there, to your knowledge, any where I can down load the TEXT version for reading? (3) Final query, is have you any posts or comments here on this Ministry Blog, that .... you personally recommend; that covers the Topic of .... Sanctification versus Justification.... And the issues around this theme and question? Let me elaborate slightly ..... See a lot of material here on this Blog, on the rightful need to acknowledge: (1) Our inherent human sinfulness. (2) Our 100% need for Jesus Christ's Mercy and Salvation by His precious Blood...... (3) Our need to meditate, read and try to apply ..... on the Biblical Word of God. But unfortunately Dave, I do Not really see much material that addresses, the important but knotty topic and "grey area", of: Once a person is saved, does one lead a PERFECT life .... with only the occasional slip ups ..?? OR .... >>> the related question of: That even once saved by .... & through Christ, ..... do we still unfortunately regularly still sin, and need to basically keep "working on, and on-wardly working on " trying to live more pleasing to God lives ..... ?? Personally.... Pastor Dave, I do not really feel intuitively that Theological approaches from people like: Charles Finney / John Wesley .... were quite on the right track .....with their: - "holiness and moral -- "will power driven" --- perfectionist theology and mantra ..... >>--- but then again Pastor Dave, I am very fallible and might be theologically ---- " right off beam" .....?? So I was wondering; whether there was anywhere.... >> on This Site..... or else where --- that covers the Topic of: -- "Our spiritual state before Father in Heaven God-- post our justification by faith and receiving his free offer of Salvation ? --- And secondly, how "sinful" do we remain (after Justification through Christ's blood) ...on a daily basis after that justification has taken place.... ....? Example to illustrate my "thought line" and burning question : After the historical and actual Resurrection of Jesus Christ, and after ..... their own personal accepting of Christ as the Risen God, and receiving of salvation ..... the Question for me is: Did Paul the Apostle and Peter the apostle, and other Christians that they associated with in the first generation of new "washed in Christ's Blood Christians , ...... still have "bad days" ??- Did such historically eminent Christians -- ever stuff up, ie: where they possibly still swore, were selfish, or thought.... or did.... uncharitable thoughts or actions or even sinned generally?? >> Or alternatively, did those Apostles and New Christians, sort of live on a higher plane than us mere mortals today .... ? Ipso facto, were the Early Christians basically almost morally perfect...? If not, were and how were they still were sanctified ? And so how does this "Spiritual Condition before God" differ (Sanctification versus Justification)--- in your opinion, practically speaking -- in daily living -- for us Christians on a day to day basis today ....? Many thanks.... in advance Pastor Dave , if you can be of any help ..... with views or appropriate other readings you feel are helpful... Kindest Regards, Dave Robinson. (Robbo) Brisbane. Queensland. Australia .

While I'll always think of Knowing God first when I hear Packer's name, I think his comment on the ESV is understandable if placed in the context of the contemporary state of evangelicalism. Evangelicals had essentially ceded the lineage of KJV revision to the mainline Protestants and the NRSV, and evangelicals were sold on a loose translation whose publishers were relentlessly pushing in a feminist direction. The ESV changed that. Sure Packer owes a lot to Metzger, and Metzger owes much to Philip Schaff who led the team that created the ASV, not to mention Kurt Aland and Eberhard Nestle. There's no shame in that.