Racism, private schools, homeschools, and the ministry of reconciliation...

Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. (2 Corinthians 5:17-20)

Here's a comment that is Godly and will strengthen our faith. I've promoted it from beneath the very lengthy discussion of race that's developed under the post, "The World Cup, racism, and the reprobate." But first, a few words.

As in the time of the New Testament, race is one of the most difficult questions facing the Church today, both in the U.S. and around the world. The public policy debates of the past several months show its incendiary nature within our nation as we work through border control, immigration, and our balance of trade. And personally, my daughter, Michal, and I disagreed by E-mail in front of our family, recently, over whether or not our nation should have a single official language.

After fifty-six sermons, I'm finally coming to the sixth chapter of Galatians this Lord's Day, and although I'm not prepared to engage the entire New Perspective on Paul debate, it's inconceivable to me how any shepherd of God's flock could read of the Judaizing conflict in the New Testament church without recognizing the classic newbies vs. old-timers, people of God vs. goyim, citizens vs. wetbacks, imports vs. native-born, blacks vs. whites group conflicts that have divided us from the time we were expelled from the Garden of Eden. My mother-in-law jokingly hung a plaque in the bathroom recognizing her as a member of SNOB--the Society of Native Oregonian Born. And here we see within one state the same attitude toward outsiders being expressed against illegal aliens across our nation just now.

What is the Christian response to all the group-hatreds that entice us?

Always, the Christian starts with the personal and local. Jesus started with the story of the Good Samaritan, teaching us to ask ourselves, personally, "Who is my neighbor?" This is the question the Holy Spirit is asking us still today, and the answer each of us and our families give is one of the principal barometers of our heart faith. Do we pass on the other side of the road or do we stop and help?

For instance, every form of education chosen by Christian parents for their children has its own strengths and weaknesses...

Mary Lee and I have used four different methods to educate our own five: we've had them in public schools, we've homeschooled them, we've had them in several Christian schools in Wisconsin and Indiana; and two of our high-schoolers got part of their high school education on the campus of Indiana University. So we're anything but naive about the mixed motives Christians have when we put our children in private Christian schools or teach them at home.

Much of the discussion this past week under the aforementioned blog post has mentioned the choices we all make about where we're going to live and raise our families. An under-discussed aspect of this same issue is the parallel question of where and how we're going to educate our children. Without entering that debate here, I can say with firmness that when we Christians make choices concerning where we live and where our children are taught in such a way that we are able to maintain our pristine lives without threat from the outside, we are going directly against the command of our Lord Jesus Who warned that the loveless would always protest, "Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or sick or naked?"

Whitebread schools and neighborhoods and churches are, after all, quite dangerous for Christians because they rob us of our Lord Jesus. The loveless aren't lying when they say, "Lord, we never saw you!" They didn't see Him because they made a choice not to see Him.

Well, Nick Raia has made a different choice. With Joshua, he has said, "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." And so, one believer and his family at a time, we are carrying out the ministry of reconciliation that God gave His Son, Jesus Christ, and that He's also given us. May God bless Nick Raia and all his neighbors.

I feel deflated by reading your comments, and a sense of utter defeat fills me when I listen to the justification of your negative feelings towards other races and cultures.

I grew up in a rich white suburban area in Minnesota, went to school in Chicago and now have lived in the multi-ethnic urban setting for about 3 years now. My wife and I just bought a house on a street where almost every night we play the game "fireworks or bullets". I have felt what you refer to - the desire to move to someplace safer and more comfortable, especially when it comes to deciding where my kids will go to school. I have yet to be mugged but am planning on it happening any day. I work in the one of the worst public high schools in the state. I feel it, I know what you're talking about (even though Minneapolis isn't the same as Atlanta or Philly).

But when we give up and let these feelings prevail, we are denying that God's grace is sufficient for us and that HE is greater than all the things that we face day to day. When we give up, we also show that we haven't set ourselves up with the necessary support to help us through the rough times (with neighbors, church members, and friends).

I grew up with nave eyes, hoping that white Christians had improved. I've argued for you with my African-American friends and colleagues. But hearing you talk on this blog makes me feel that they are right; racism, especially in the suburban church, is as strong as it's ever been - it just looks different now.

Weisbrot, you said, "Now that I've had time to experience the reality of living near both blacks and Hispanics, though, I have come to the conclusion that I do not want to continue living near them, moving among them, or experiencing their "culture"." In your time living there, did you have any meaningful friendships with any African-Americans or Hispanics? Did you discuss any of your experiences with them? Did you show love to any person that you lived by? (Matt. 22) Have you ever prayed, laughed, cried with any of them? You talk about self-preservation; the Bible talks about putting self to death.

I am sorry for your experiences, I know they are real and I know what kind of effect they can have. I simply wish I could walk you around and introduce you to the amazing people I know. You would be changed forever (like I have been).

As for the role of the suburban church in loving our urban brothers and sisters; it must be by supporting the churches that are in the city and not through well-intentioned but actually harmful short term projects. Paul built churches then worked to build up the Christians in those churches.

Nick Raia



>Whitebread schools and neighborhoods and churches are, after all, quite dangerous for Christians because they rob us of our Lord Jesus.

Depending on how you want to define "whitebread" the second and third above are likely true. The first is in a different category. I don't recall anywhere in scripture where we are encouraged to use our children as Christian shock troops to fight the enemy (which is not racial but is very real). We are told to exercise great care in their instruction. People who say Christians aren't having a good witness unless their children are in public schools don't seem to grasp that. I'm much more willing to expose myself to situations than I am my child, particularly in their early years.

I feel I must disagree with my brother Nick in the comments he posted above. I have a covenental duty to my children to raise them in the "nurture & admonition of the Lord". My baptismal vows demand that I "pray with & for them".

I must say that, with all due respect, if I knowingly leave my children in a dangerous situation I am failing in my duty to them.

By Nicks own account his neighborhood is unsafe both for him & (more so)for his family. Remember the example of our early fathers who fled Jerusalem ahead of Gods judgement by the hand of the Romans. They did not stay put and expose themselves along with their families to danger so they could "show love" to their neighbors.

I can not imagine that my prayers for my children should include the petition "Lord, keep the kids you gave me save from the gun-toting thugs who hate them & target them because of their white skin."

Brother Nick, in all sincerity I beg you to think of you duty--and move, now.

Perhaps it would be instructive to move beyond the setting and simply consider our attitudes. Are we living Genesis 1:27 in our lives with all descended from Adam? Are we doing it at school, church, work, at the doctor's office, in the park, while shopping, etc..?

And keeping safe? Yup, that's what Jesus did. He certainly wouldn't have risked crucifixion by going to Jerusalem. Nope, not ever. It's recorded too that all of the apostles left the Roman empire to avoid being executed by the Romans. Right? And those prophets would never have risked physical danger by going to, say, King Ahab and Queen Jezebel, and warning them of the consequences of their sins.

Never, no way, couldn't happen. Safety is the Christian way, you betcha. That's why the Sudan Inland Mission was never formed, because those who wanted to go rightly feared being buried on African soil. That's why no one jokes about missionaries being eaten by cannibals. Just doesn't happen. Christianity is a safe religion, after all. We keep our own kids safe, yup.


Having just moved my five children from a quiet suburb to a multi-racial neighborhood in a smaller city (Peoria is no Chicago) I have to differ with your attitude there.

Should we decide that we can no longer evangelize in nations like Uganda, Sudan, Pakistan? Does the Gospel not belong there because it isn't safe?

I do not fault those who choose to live in "safe" upper-class neighborhoods but I believe my family has been called to procalim the gospel in the *city* and that means that we live close to shootings, drug dealers and prostitutes.

I will do my best to protect my children in this environemnt but I will also provide them with the education necessary to in that "go ye into all the world" includes the "unwashed" in our back yard.

That being said, my children also won't be going to the government school up the road.


I find myself agreeing with Robert wholeheartedly (without the sarcasm - although it does get the point across very well and I love well placed sarcasm.) You are correct that we are called to raise our children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. However, note that nowhere does it say safety. In fact, I could easily argue that the spiritual dangers for children in America are much more than the physical - even in the hood. It is a cowardly man who puts his children on the front lines while not engaging the enemy of poverty and racism himself. But, what a great gift would be teaching your children by example of a radical love for Christ that denies itself and its own comfort and seeks to serve the least of these by living and ministering among them.

I was talking with a friend the other day about why we do not live in the county directly to the South of Nashville (Franklin, TN - the 13th highest per capita income for a county in the nation) and why he is moving to the inner city crack houses side of Nashville. I loved his comment: "I don't want my kids growing up thinking that this (wealthy white America) is how the world lives; that this is normal; that the needy are only in pictures in Africa."

Yes, raising children in a tough area of town IS dangerous. It smacks to me of a lack of faith, however, when the reason for avoiding this is safety. I will freely admit that the Lord does not call all of us to move to the hood. My wife and I considered it a couple years ago and decided that we were not being led there at that time.

I don't have time to unpack this as I should right now. Sorry. I hope that someone else will pick up where I left off.

I remember listening to a Piper sermon a few years back where Piper was talking about how his family lives in downtown minnesotta, a very violent and crime filled place. I wonder if the above commenters would have the same response to John Piper that they do to Nick.

I think it would be interesting to see how much money Christians in America puts towards their segregated private schools vs. investing in the inner city and helping out their neighbor. Is it all about me or all about the less fortunate? Is it all about trusting God or doing what I can to give myself a better position on this earth so I don't have to trust God.

18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. (Romans 8:18) I wonder what it looks to like to prepare for suffering with a greater hope for Heaven then avoiding suffering at all cost.

"How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?" (Rom. 10)

The safety of my family is not in my hands, it is in God's. As I said in one of my responses, I do not yet have children - I apologize for any misunderstanding - but plan on raising them here with my wife. And if the Lord should lift his hand of protection from us in his sovereign will, it would be my job to praise Him for it.

"I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I life in the body, I life by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me" (Gal. 2)

The real danger for children is not safety, but that they will be corrupted by their classmates. That is a big danger, and it is by no means special to inner cities-- perhaps it is not even higher there, on average. Public school quality is probably lower in the inner cities, though. That means one good option is for a family to live in a poor neighborhood, but home-school their children or send them to a Christian school. Indeed, since poor neighborhoods have cheaper houses, it may be that it is only by living there that a family can afford good education.

Since when is the desire to live in a safe neighborhood mean you are a racist? Being interested in a peaceful neighborhood does not mean you are against any particular color of skin.

I'm all in favor of Christians devoting more resources to helping those in poverty. I used to devote 75% of my giving (like 99% of institutionalized believers) to church buildings and hired staffing so I could meet other believers in a big group in a special building with a professionalized Bible lecture. I found I could fulfill ALL of Christ's commands and apostolic instructions and examples for church life by meeting in a small group of believers in a home where business men teach for free. Now 100% of my giving can go to those who are in need, rather than buy services for other rich believers. This was a SYSTEM shift due to the impact of truth.

Jesus said, "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." When 75% or more of your giving is for inside the church building, that is where your heart will be. When 100% of giving goes out to those in need, that is where your heart will be. It's an axiom of where your heart will be. Jesus said it, not me.

Don't be afraid to recognize that some of your favorite traditions "nullify the commands of God", even today. It's all correctable if we will "re-research" it.

>I found I could fulfill ALL of Christ's commands and apostolic instructions and examples for church life by meeting in a small group of believers in a home where business men teach for free.

Word, sacrament and church discipline?


The desire to live with your own family does not undermine love. Does the desire to live with your own nation?

The desire to live in your own state does not undermine love. Does the desire to live with your own nation?

States and family are not built on the hatred of other states and families. This is not to say that the hatred of others cannot emerge from this love. But we would not reject these institutions because hate can emerge from them. Similarly, nations are not built on the hatred of other nations. Where hate emerges, it should be condemned -- but not the nation per se nor the cultivation of it.

It seems obvious to me that we live in an age where a once appropriate reaction to excessive love of nation and hatred of other nations has led to an equally unrighteous rejection of the nation. Who honestly believes that African-Americans would not be better off with greater national self-control? They don't need more Europeans moving into their neighborhoods; they need a reinvigoration of their national life.

Why did we fight wars for the principle of national self-determination if the nation is not a principled instrument of human life? Why do we regard genocidal mass-murder as more wicked than mass-murder simpliciter? Because 25,000,000 people from a mix of nations, murdered because of their beliefs are 25,000,000 individuals murdered. But, the murder of 25,000,000 from the same nations kills not only the individuals but the life of the nation, that incredibly powerful pre-political force that sustains cultures and individuals.

In Christ, there is no Jew or Greek and no man or woman. But to argue on that basis that we must ignore all national difference in housing as silly as arguing that we must ignore all sexual differences.

I agree, Pensans. People are starting to wake up. May God grant that it's not to late for our people.

Tim Bayly says-
"Whitebread schools and neighborhoods and churches are, after all, quite dangerous for Christians because they rob us of our Lord Jesus. The loveless aren't lying when they say, "Lord, we never saw you!" They didn't see Him because they made a choice not to see Him."

Perhaps Mr. Bayly could now expound on the lack
of whitebread contamination found in the area
where he lives and works- Bloomington, IN. It
would seem that given Bayly's standards, Christ
has been stolen right from in front of his
sanctimonious eyes.

While Mr. Bayly may well be a hypocrite, or at
least lack any strength of conviction, Mr. Raia
is a well-intentioned fool. I speak this way
from experience, and wish him the best- before
his family experiences the grief he is placing
in its path.

Bloomington is the perfect example of how a city can be as white as porcelain and yet be completely evil. Anyone who thinks it's some puritanical city of morality and virtue has obviously never lived there. In reality it's more like the San Francisco of the Midwest.

"I have yet to be mugged but am planning on it happening any day."

Well, it's not really what happens to *him* that's the issue. I personally am glad that my husband makes keeping street criminals away from me and my daughter a higher priority than his own feelings of spiritual authenticity. Incidentally, he is not white.

The same Tim Bayly who wrote that awesome PCA paper about the duty to keep women out of combat is endorsing this? Huh?

That's right, Elizabeth.

There's a reason that the PCA is refered to by kinists as the lowest common denomination.

To claim that only a few ethnic groups constitute the poor or needy is untrue at best and racist to its core at worst. What about the poor in Appalachia? The widow (who happens to be white) struggling on a fixed income in our own church? The sick within our own congregations who happen to live in the wrong neighborhood (a white neighborhood) to elicit enough sympathy to inspire others to help? The Serbian Christians whose churches were burned by Muslims? Roumanian children starving for food and attention in cold, rigid orphanages? Surely we see Christ in them as well as in any of the dark peoples.

On another note, it is indicative of a white supremacist attitude to state that only white families should or could minister to the dark peoples of the earth. I believe there are godly people within the ranks of each race who could and should lead them in the way in which they should walk!

To be insulted by a "kinist" is, well, not that insulting. Kind of a compliment, really.

Right on, Laurel.

Uh, no, Laurel.

It's indicative of white supremicism that we should consider the color of one's skin at all before ministering to another person.

I have German, English, Irish and Danish blood in me. Why is that somehow less opposed by kinists than somone who has German, English and Afriacn blood? Or African and Asian blood? Or just various African?

Jesus came to unite the nations in one holy race of priests. Babel is reversed at Pentecost.

God called me to the inner city. There are caucasians, african-americans and those of asian decent in my general neighborhood. And I don't look at their skin before telling them about Jesus. According to the kinists, it seems, I should. But then there is enough darkness in my own heart that I know that Jesus conquers in his death that I could care less about the skin of my neighbor.

How much darkness did Jesus conquer in the kinist heart? Or is that all white too?

Elizabeth, the wellbeing of my wife is the number one most important thing in my life. I have the responsibility to love and cherish her, protect her, provide for her.

She laughed when I told her how all this debate is about her (I'm sure she'll comment eventually if I ever get off the computer). I think the reason she laughed is that it was *her* that brought *me* into the city. I show love by protecting her, figuring out how to live as safely as possible. But I would be denying God's calling on her if I were to say "no, it's too dangerous here, we need to hightail it to the suburbs".

And if we want to talk about spiritual authenticity, it is my beautiful wife that keeps my train on track most of the time. We are here. Together. We support the African-American leadership of our church and actively take part in the ministry headed up there, doing the best we can to stay faithful to the calling God has laid on our hearts. (Laurel, I heartily agree with your sentiments - leadership should come from within and we should support it)

I hope in your reading of this you do not find any argumentativeness or contentiousness; I am trying my hardest to stay positive and continue the dialogue. I fear that the conversation will wrap up soon, as it appears that the attacks are slowly starting to outnumber the peaceful, respectful discussion of ideas. If anyone would like to continue discussing these matters with me, feel free to email me (njraia@hotmail.com). I will attempt to listen and respect you as best I can.

>God called me to the inner city.

Presumably you recognize that your calling, if it exists, is not universal.


Correct, not all Christians must live in the city. But it is a commandment to love one another, seek out justice, and protect the fatherless and the widow. Does paying our taxes fulfill these commandments? What is the best way to fulfill them?

Here's how racial reconciliation is attempted in
the metro area where I live:

Uproar as new black sheriff sacks white staff
January 12, 2005

Jonesboro, Georgia: An influx of black professionals has seen Clayton County, a suburb steeped in US Civil War history and legend, elect its black-majority government and a new black sheriff.

But any celebration in the land of Tara where Margaret Mitchell set her 1936 novel, Gone With the Wind, has been eclipsed by the uproar over the new sheriff's mass firing of 27 supervisors, deputies and corrections officers, many of them white. They had been summoned by their new boss, Sheriff Victor Hill, to the Clayton County jail on Monday under the pretext of being sworn in. Instead they were relieved of their weapons, badges and official cars by armed colleagues and offered rides home in prisoner vans under the eyes of snipers posted on the roof.

Lieutenant Garland Watkins, a 19-year department veteran and head of internal affairs, said he thought he was going to die. He said he imagined "Holocaust stuff - Jews being taken to the showers."

An appalled county commission quickly won a judge's order to void the dismissals pending a January 14 court hearing into whether the 345 department employees were covered by civil service protection. Those dismissed were ordered returned to the payroll, but Mr Hill put them on administrative leave, citing a hostile atmosphere.

The new commission chairman, Eldrin Bell, who headed the Atlanta police from 1990 to 1994, "wanted a seamless transition of white to black here", said the panel's chief-of-staff, Clark Talmage Stevens. "And here comes the sheriff firing everybody in sight." Mr Stevens, a former adviser to presidents Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan, called it "an embarrassment". "This is all over the country, like we're a bunch of goofballs," he said.

Mr Hill, a 39-year-old former Clayton County police officer and one-term member of the Georgia House of Representatives, said the firings were being wildly exaggerated. He said that by his reading of the law, his staff was not civil service and he was merely exercising the right of a new boss to clean house.

He said he needed the stringent security measures because a sheriff-elect in neighbouring DeKalb County, Derwin Brown, was assassinated in 2000 after announcing intended dismissals.

But many of those fired said their only crime was having supported Mr Hill's white opponent, the incumbent, Stanley Tuggle, for the $US86,000 ($113,000)-a-year post, and in retaliation lost their livelihoods and were humiliated.

Mr Hill denied any political motives, saying his decision "wasn't made on the basis they supported the other guy or black or white".

Sure, this is just a case of whites overreacting
to a reforming black. Perhaps we can ignore the
fact that the black county commissioner mentioned
above, Eldrin Bell, was repeatedly linked to drug
use and trafficking while he was Atlanta Police
Chief and left that office under a cloud of
suspicion and federal investigation. He's never
been fully investigated, and is now a member in
good standing of the black syndicate controlling
most of the urban areas in metro Atlanta. Oh, the
misunderstood black reformer sheriff, still in
office after having numerous cronies revealed as
white-hating thugs in secretly taped meetings,
was recently back in the news. His reforms are
apparently working:

Deputy Caught In Prostitution Sting
Clayton Sheriff: Officer To Be "Treated Like Any Ordinary Criminal"

UPDATED: 3:39 pm EDT June 10, 2006

JONESBORO -- A Clayton County Sheriff's deputy was among 15 to 16 men caught up in a prostitution sting in Jonesboro Friday night, Sheriff Victor Hill said.

The deputy, Christopher Morris Johnson, 41, "will be treated like any ordinary criminal," Hill said. Johnson has been a jailer for three and a half weeks, Hill said.

Officers arrested the men Friday night at the Woods Motel on North Main Street in Jonesboro.

"We've had numerous complaints about prostitution in this area," Hill said. "The sheriff's office and the police department are very serious about cleaning this area up."

"What is the Christian response to all the group-hatreds that entice us?

Always, the Christian starts with the personal and local."

Gosh, Mr. Bayly, the stories above are about as
personal and local as you can get, especially to
the fired white deputies and to the fearful
white population still remaining in Jonesboro
and in other areas around south Atlanta. And
this is just one non-whitebread urban
environment. A quick look at US DOJ statistics
tells a thinking person all he needs to know
about the "where" and "who" of violent crime
in the US. Bloomington being 85% white, of
course, has nothing to do with its relative
safety compared to someplace like downtown
Atlanta or Jonesboro.

Of course, those not called to immoral areas
aka white communities simply find their work
cut out for them- the more ministry opportunities
the better, right? I wonder how Nick Raia and
other crusaders of racial harmony will feel about
their outreach when they hold their wife after
she's raped by one of the noble savages whose
Big Momma claimed to be said crusaders "new
Momma." How will they explain to the parents
they've turned their back on that a grandchild
was killed in one of the daily drive-by
shootings in the hood? Will their crusade be of
any comfort when their widows have to support
children after Dad's been killed by get-whitey
Vietnamese gangs? These incidents happen
constantly and are consistently ignored by most
of the national media, while Rodney King-style
incidents are hyped and misconstrued by the good
Christian racial crusaders in the media.

I urge Mr. Bayly and others to move away from
their Christ-robbing whitebread communities and
into the areas easily found by perusing DOJ stats
on high crime and murder rate areas (although I
would hope they would leave innocent children
behind). Send us a report back if you're still
there in three years, or if you survive. Best
of luck.

One more thing: while Mr. Bayly and Mr. Raia are
gathering their thoughts on how to clearly define
"racism", how to prove racism is a sin, and how
to support that proof with scripture, I'll post
the location of the US DOJ statistics on just one
category of violent crime, murder:

Blacks are listed as seven times more likely to
commit murder than whites, a statistic which is
complicated by Justice's policy of listing
Hispanics as "white" in in this category-while
other statistics prove a higher Hispanic rate of
violent crime. Extrapolations of these rates
across entire populations show an astronomically
high prediliction-almost a calling-for black
males to commit murder. So one has to wonder at
how any writer in 85% white Bloomington, IN can
cast aspersions on any individual wanting to
avoid the dangers exposed by these statistics.


please explain how those stories are examples of racial reconciliation. It didn't sound like that was the goal of any of the people involved. Those stories seemed more like examples of people being stupid. Just the opinion of a well-intentioned fool. I also wanted to inform you that your email address doesn't seem to be working. Posting comments on these blogs has become tiresome and I had hoped to continue our dialogue through email. If that is ok with you, please email me (njraia@hotmail.com) a better address.

>Correct, not all Christians must live in the city.

(sigh of relief)

>But it is a commandment to love one another, seek out justice, and protect the fatherless and the widow.


>Does paying our taxes fulfill these commandments?

Absolutely not although lowering taxes may allow these commandments to be fulfilled more liberally.

> What is the best way to fulfill them?

I would think this to be based on the context of the individual. Which might mean that while perhaps one may honor God by living in the inner city, another may by living in the suburbs (poor soul) or yet another by living in a town with less than 100 population. Each should apply the same principle but the application will vary.

>Send us a report back if you're still
there in three years, or if you survive. Best
of luck.

Why am I skeptical that your last statement may not be heartfelt?

you also asked me to report back in 3 years. I am 2 and a half years in right now, and I'm pretty sure I'll survive til Christmas. If you are interested in hearing from some people in my church that moved into the city and have stayed there for more than three years, please tell me and I will make sure they get in contact with you.

I was listening to a reformed pastor recently who said that it was a father and husband's responsibility to make sure his family lives in a safe area. And he's not a kinist at all! So, if a pastor who is not a kinist believes that it's a man's duty to move his family to a place that's as crime free as possible, should it really be that far-fetched an idea to other pastors and non kinist men? Isn't it just common sense? No one's saying we can't evangelize others, or that we can't travel to other areas as the Lord guides us in certain ministries. However, not everyone has a Black or Hispanic ministry, just like not everyone is called to a clothing, food, furniture building, or music ministry. What if a White person or couple senses a call by the Lord to evangelize their kinsmen according to the flesh and teach them reformed doctrine and how that doctrine applies to other areas of life? Don't White people need the gospel and to be educated to? I'm White, and I sure do know a lot of ignorant White folks who need ministry. Was Paul wrong to feel such a strong connection to his kinsmen according to the flesh that he was willing to go to hell for them rather than see them perish without the gospel? Was that sinful?

I can't speak for all kinists, but my basic philosophy is this: I want nothing for the white race that I don't want for other races of people that the Lord has sovereignly placed on the planet. However, the problem is, our multiculturalist, pluralistic society does not afford our kinsmen according to the flesh the same courtesy. That's the problem. And White people tolerate it. You want sin? That's a sin. We're not whitebread - nasty nutritionless, puffy shallow crap, and I resent the hell out of that term to describe a beautiful people God has made. It's just as dispicable as calling blacks mud people or Jews snakes. You'd never think of applying those name to blacks and Jews and rightly so. So why is it okay to call us and yourselves whitebread?

>the problem is, our multiculturalist, pluralistic society does not afford our kinsmen according to the flesh the same courtesy.

Morasoom, would you mind explaining a little further what you view the problem as? I'm sorry, I didn't quite understand what you said. Thank you.

Nick, I see examples of the maltreatment of white students daily, and I see students take it as if they somehow deserve it, as if the color of their skin makes them worthy of public humiliation. I've seen it in the higher education system as well, white male students attacked by their professors to the point where they squirm in their seats with a guilt that is at its basis wholly artificial and based on nothing these individuals have done in their lifetimes. But they take it in as if they themselves have done something horrific, which is simply not true.

When a people and aculture becomes as suicidal as it appears mine has, it becomes important to me to speak out as best I can.

Kinism as I see it allows for all races to achieve to their highest abilities, to be ministered to by the godly of their own people and led to the Lord. It doesn't mean that missionaries must only be of the same race as the people ministered to, but suggests that people with a common cultural background may be more credible to their unsaved compatriots than missionaries who do not share that common understanding.

On another note:

To Mr. Lansberry, I am in total agreement that charity should not depend on the race of the needy one. That's exactly what I said in response to previous posts that focused exclusively on the race of the needy. If you or anyone else wish to deny that white people can be poor and needy as well as the darker peoples, well, that's your point of view, not mine.

God bless,

Mr. White Bread (weissbrot) would do well to consider that if one desire to pull statistical stunts to malign a people, high on the list of victims of that pathetic trick would be the people who live between the Rhein and the Oder.

And my neighbor Nick (I live in Chaska) will probably be OK, as Minneapolis' ~400,000 people have suffered only about 30 murders so far this year. Too many, yes, but let's put it in perspective; he faces far greater danger while driving, or if he dares to walk near the light rail boondoggle, or from the after-effects of too many trips to "Culver's."

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